Wednesday 20th August 2008

Mal Fletcher comments

In the end, there can be a new place of effectiveness for even the fallen ones, though perhaps not in the sphere they previously occupied.

If you've ever known a leader or prominent Christian who's fallen, keep yourself from bitterness which eats away at the soul. Determine in your heart that should you meet, you would be able to say, 'I'm praying for you and for your family. God has a great future for you and it is good.'

The Biblical God is the God of a second chance - with accountability, healing and gradual restoration.

Listen again to an interview with Mal Fletcher on Cross Rhythms City Drive radio programme, with Jonathan Bellamy (21st August 2008). Click and scroll to 'Mal Fletcher'.

Watch Mal Fletchers special video presentation on what we should do when Christian leaders fail.

The opinions expressed in this article are not necessarily those held by Cross Rhythms.

About Mal Fletcher

Mal Fletcher is a member of the Cross Rhythms Board Of Reference. His TV series, Edges, deals with social and lifestyle issues from a balanced Christian perspective. Edges is now showing on God TV (Fri 17.00, Mon 18.00, Tue 00.30) and Revelation TV. It is broadcast on mainstream TV in Australia (Seven Network), South Africa (SABC1) and Denmark (KKR-TV). For more information visit www.edges.tv.

Plus, you can now buy Edges on DVD from Cross Rhythms Direct

Copyright Mal Fletcher 2005
Reproduced with permission from www.nextwaveonline.com

View all articles by Mal Fletcher

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Reader Comments

Posted by Russell Fragar in just in front of my computer @ 19:32 on Aug 20 2008

An excellent and very helpful piece Mal. To the readers, if any of you know young people who have been shaken or disappointed by these events, please send them the link to this article.
Finally, there is one thing worse than being disappointed: it is the the inability to be disappointed because of cynicism. Love believes.

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Posted by Kelly Turner in Bradford, England @ 20:38 on Aug 20 2008

This is a really sad day reading about Michael Guglielmucci, but you know I believe that although there will be consequences for Michael and the lie he has told, God's love for him has not changed one jot. Whatever reason he initially chose to lie maybe we'll never really know, but rather than judgment he needs prayer and the support from those closest to him. As a believer he will have enough conviction and probably feelings of condemnation, but that is truthfully between him and God.

Yes I know there will be many people who may be hurt by his admission of the deception, but that does not change the greatness of our God. I know God is a healing God who never lets us down.

I ask people to not judge Michael, but to keep him and his family uplifted in your prayers.

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Reply by Zon in Victoria @ 12:10 on Aug 26 2008

Christ was there all the way... my reaction was and is still love for Michael. Being a mother I can and will in no way disown a child no matter what. If the foundation of our faith is Christ alone we will not turn our back on God because of someone's fall but instead learn from this and walk a step higher. Pray for the person who fell and love him/her more. God's love does not depend on us... it depends fully on Him. Who are we to pass judgment or condemn someone who fell. The Bible admonishes us to help and lift those who have fallen. Help them to walk again. How sure are we that we will not fall or make an iota of sin? He or she who has not sinned... throw the first stone.

Posted by Emma in Isle Of Man @ 21:36 on Aug 20 2008

It is with great saddness for Michael that I read this, I am concerned as to how he may cope with unavoidable humiliation, after all which one of us doesn't live a life where we hide things and try to portray a different, better person to others? Some may think, but that was a real big lie, but don't we all know that to God one small sin is just as painful as a whopper? Of course I feel for his close ones, but I just can't imagine how he must feel now. I pray for him to find his peace again with God and his family.
And may we all take from this not to put others on pedistals, we all need to learn to communicate ourselves with God and ask him to bless us with discernment so we are shocked and our faith is not rocked when things like this happen.

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Posted by Erica in London @ 22:19 on Aug 20 2008

Thanks for writing this Mal. My thoughts and prayers are with Mike and his family and friends. Thank God for His wonderful never-ending grace for all of us.

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Posted by Joann in Las Vegas @ 23:06 on Aug 20 2008

Amen, I agree!! Let's not shoot our wounded!! Praying for his healing will help your own!

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Posted by Daniel Warlow in London @ 23:54 on Aug 20 2008

Mal, you are a great guy. It's much appreciated having your commentary on this, because many people will need this advice. I totally agree. It was a shame to see the "praying together for mike" facebook group removed, because, in a sense he now needs prayer as much as before, if not more. In addition to that, I must say the news never gives the full story. I'm sure you would konw more than what has been said online, but I know there's more to the story. People have immediately assumed the whole thing was totally faked from start to finish. I'm not entirely sure it was, though it may have been. All we know is that dishonesty has been at play somewhere in the line, and obviously it is tragic, but the bottom line is we don't know the in's and outs of it. Nevertheless, we still keep Mike in our prayers.

thanks mal.

DAn.

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Posted by David M in Adelaide @ 01:39 on Aug 21 2008

Thanks for a well balanced article Mal. I've know the family for a long time and love them dearly. Were Mike to walk into my office in the next few minutes I would hold him, weep with him, and assure him of my love and his Lord's. He's not likely to walk in, but that doesn't negate any of what I've just written. My heart and prayers go out to Mike and his family.

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Posted by Tim Perry in Hang Dong, Thailand @ 02:28 on Aug 21 2008

An excellent message Mal. I appreciate your passion in bringing clarity of thought and the mind of Christ for many who will be struggling at this time. Wether it be Michael or someone else we know and respect highly this is an issue that we will all deal with at some stage. How do I come to terms with the failure of a "hero in the faith." GRACE IS OUTLANDISH!! IT IS FAR MORE POWERFUL AND GIVING THAN WE CAN TOLERATE!! Thanks Mal

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Posted by Kita Stringer in Narrogin Christian Centre ACC @ 03:21 on Aug 21 2008

Thankyou Mal unfortunately you are right, amazing miracles happen but people grab hold of what has gone wrong. Michael's song will still touch my heart, this just makes you remember not to judge others but to keep each other accountable. We as a church will be praying for the family. Blessings Shane & Kita

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Posted by Jay in Melbourne @ 03:40 on Aug 21 2008

An excellent message Mal. I know Mike and despite the hurt and confusion experienced in learning of what has occured, God has driven home a fresh revelation of His Grace and the very reason for it's existence. Thankyou for your wisdom and truth in the words written.

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Posted by Roost in New Zealand @ 04:26 on Aug 21 2008

With all due respect Mal I felt quite frustrated after reading your article.
Although it is very well talking of forgiveness, human failure etc. (over and over again), I think this article is perhaps overlooking many real issues and perhaps a few weeks premature.
What about surrounding issues such as accountability for the big names, or lack of. How about the naivity of friends, family and those other 'finest Christian leaders' who failed to show any level of discernment.
How about acknowledging those hundreds of people whose faith will be devestated, and thousands who are actual cancer sufferers.
Despite how 'nice' it sounds to talk about forgiveness, let's get real. There IS a time for condemnation, and recognition of internal failure.

Perhaps another article on wider issues Mal?

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Reply by Mike in Brisbane @ 02:47 on Aug 22 2008

Roost, what would you have done when King David committed adultery and murder? Would you have jumped in front of the prophet Samuel and said "Ok Samuel, get the whole nation to condemn David, he should be stood down". What would you have said when David prayed "Against you alone have I sinned Lord"? You will reap what you sow if you choose a judgmental position.

Reply by sg @ 03:50 on Aug 22 2008

Oh No not condemnation! Thats the devils job..God brings conviction, lets leave this in Gods hands. Also can we spare a prayer for Amanda, his wife, who has possibly been betrayed the greatest!!

Reply by Wendy in Horsham @ 07:15 on Aug 22 2008

How sad to read your comment. It reminds me of the story of the woman caught in adultery, and what did Jesus say? "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone."
I was extremely uplifted and encouraged to read the comments by Mal Fletcher and totally agree that the forgiveness and grace of our God is beyond description.

Posted by Lance in Perth @ 04:30 on Aug 21 2008

This was not a 'failure' or a 'fall'.

This was an elaborately-planned and executed hoax.

Don't try and wallpaper over it with Christianese, Mal.

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Reply by Jimbolean Jim @ 11:53 on Aug 21 2008

Well said Lance.

Reply by GTLMC in perth @ 13:31 on Aug 21 2008

With respect, how on earth would either of you know?
You're entitled to your opinion; don't flatter yourselves to the extent of such a confident assertion.
I don't know Michael. But I know Jesus, and know that his Grace has covered my sins many times over. I'm just fortunate mine have been dealt with privately. Can either of you two look in the mirror and see a perfect and faultless reflection?
Grace. Forgiveness. Because I know I'm so very far from perfect.

Reply by Lance in Perth @ 19:19 on Aug 21 2008

Let's just say I know a bit about these things, because I have someone in my own family who makes up illnesses/injuries on average about twice a year.

Much of my teenage years was spent tip-toeing around the house because this particular family member was in their bed nearly all the time, with the door closed, hooked up to an oxygen tank.

In the end, another family member got fed up, ran every medical test imaginable on the 'sick' family member, and the end result? There was not, nor had there been anything wrong with them.

This family member is now in their 70's, and what's this (winter) season's illness/injury? An injured coccyx bone. All you can say is 'yeah, that's terrible', and ignore them until they come up with the next fake illness.

While I recognise that the fabricating of illnesses/injuries is a psychological issue, it's not something that you just 'fall' into.

It takes a certain level of thinking through to come up with the details of the story-line.

What didn't help Mr. Guglielmucci and probably exacerbated the problem is that the Pentecostal church in Australia tolerates a certain level of fibbing, 'acceptable lies', exaggeration and hyperbole....on everything from 'tithing' to talking-up some rather ordinary guest speakers.

Lying has become (maybe it always was?) second-nature to Pentecostals. What makes this different is the sheer scale and audicity involved in the elaborate cancer hoax.

Less audacious lies are routinely accepted by Pentecostals.

The real question in all this, is where is the line drawn between 'acceptable' lies..and 'unacceptable' lies in Pentecostalism?

Lance

Reply by John in Adelaide @ 00:15 on Aug 22 2008

Right on the money, Lance. He's perpetuated a fraud and, in the process, fooled so may who saw him as an inspiration. Worse, though, many of us dug deep because of his condition. Forgive and forget? Not likely.

Reply by Tim in New Zealand @ 00:25 on Aug 22 2008

Well said Lance.

The Christianese used to blur the real issues and defend the church seems to reflect a reluctance to use ones own God given wisdom and intelligence.

The situation brings to mind Jesus’ reaction when the Temple was used as a market place. "Is it not written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations'? But you have made it a den of robbers." Of course he will have forgiven the traders, but we must remember how angry he was, and that he first demanded change. He didn’t quietly organise a prayer meeting with the traders. His reaction was furious, and he physically enforced change.

Grace is essential yes, but it is no excuse for accepting mediocrity and not striving for excellence. The church is God’s bride and surely we must be passionate about the pursuit of purity, despite our own individual shortcomings. This pursuit involves self criticism and in this case where the integrity of the church has been brought into question, surely it demands a wider review of systems and culture.

GTLMC – of course this had to be planned. You don’t accidentally fool thousands of people and get rich in the process. He persisted for 2 years. Do you really think it was an accident?

Reply by Dave in Portland, OR, US @ 13:00 on Aug 22 2008

Lance, His (Christ's) love covers a multitude of sins. Obviously Mike's sins have been exposed, and I think it's safe to say that we all realize how deliberate his actions were (with or without the attached psychological issues). But, Christ's love covers His sin, as His love covers yours and mine also.

Christ instructs us to be examiners of fruit, not to be judgmental and certainly not stereotypical (I.e. your blanket statements about "Pentecostals"). I concede that there is no justification in Mike's actions, but... Mike and Mike alone will be responsible for those and it is our job to love our neighbor (I don't think God placed stipulations on who or what that neighbor looks like).

We have all sinned and fallen short of God's glory. Be careful not stereotype an entire denomination as being "liars". Many have come to Christ through the Pentecostal denomination and many millions of lives have been changed for the better because of Christians in that denomination. Only Satan is the "accuser of the brethren", and maybe it's better if we try not to resemble His character.

Whether you are pointing your finger at one denomination or another, remember that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, striving toward the building of His kingdom. I don't read anywhere in God's word where He recognizes denomination.

Reply by Dave in Portland, OR, US @ 13:04 on Aug 22 2008

God is bigger than denomination and I don't think He is going to care what denomination we were on earth when we meet Him in glory. I think all that He is going to care about is whether or not we loved Him and what we did to love, help and bless others.

You're entitled to your opinions Lance, but please (this is coming from a brother), I would urge caution in what you say. Whether it is your intent or not... the way you have worded your posts comes off very harsh, unforgiving and judgmental.

Lance, when I think about Paul - He beat, persecuted, harassed and even murdered many Christians, and yet God still had a future and hope for him. God also has a future and a hope for Mike, as He does for you and for me... and yes, even "Pentecostals".

The bible is littered with endless accounts of His redemptive love toward people who didn't deserve it. And His word says that He has called each one of us to be "ministers of reconciliation". Reconciliation is usually more effective when kindness and grace are applied.

Reply by Reggie in Sydney @ 07:05 on Aug 24 2008

I should have expected this kind of thing from you Lance. Nowhere to air your anti-pentecostal rants after signposts shutdown? I bet you've been itching for this kind of thing to happen so you can feed your anger even more.

Posted by sorry in I can't @ 05:07 on Aug 21 2008

Michael is my friend too. I love him dearly, like a brother. His father spoke into my world as a suicidal teenager and brought me to Christ. The pain right now is awful but I am sure nowhere near what his family are feeling. I owe the Guglielmucci family my very life. I won't turn from Mike but man, it hurts.

God... are you here? Can you see? Your people are in pain....do you see the tears?

Please, do something.

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Reply by me in brisbane, australia @ 15:35 on Aug 22 2008

God has never left.God is still here.He's still in control.Check out the story on Peter & walking on water.when peter took his eyes of Jesus, & noticing the situation around him, peter started sinking. in the middle of a storm. waves. wind. at nite. sinking. but when he cast his eyes back to Jesus - who had never left, was still in the same place - & called out to Him, Jesus pulled peter up out from sinking and drowing.
Focus on Jesus rather than some person, who can never and will never save your soul from hell.
Sin is sin no matter what colour, how many stripes, or with purple spots. It doesnt change. And just because someone well known has stepped into it doesnt mean that it should be simply overlooked.But it doesnt mean that we shouldn't forgive.Rather forgive & move on with our life. With our relationship with God.
People come people go. in between failures occur. This is an e.g. of a break in trust...and we aren't even God...a break in the trust God has bestowed on this individual. But yet at the same time if he is truly repentant God is able to forgive all.
When you stay focused on a person, it's easy to be disillusioned when wrong things occur.If you hold someone in such high esteem above God,it's understandable 2 become disillusioned. Becoz noone in this world-past or future - will be able to do what Jesus did.

Noone but Jesus has ever died for humanity. For every single person. You, me, parents,neighbour, the Subway sandwich artist down the road,school teacher,policeman,doctor, the head researcher on penguin behaviour at Antarctica...noone has done that for everyone - but Jesus.
So MG wrote a great song. But will not ensure me salvation.Won't ensure eternal life with Jesus.Won't save me from eternal separation from God.
There's only one way-through Jesus.Focus on Christ. He never failed.Never made mistakes.HE is the only one who died for your sins and mine.And has risen from the dead.

Posted by Jimbolean Jim @ 06:12 on Aug 21 2008

Show grace? How about calling it for what it is? The man is a liar and deceiver. People like him and the rediculous Todd Bentley bring the church into disrepute.

Rev 21:8 "liar, liar, lake of fire" (paraphrase)

The money hungry Hill$ong types who peddle the Gospel for profit are a curse and bring shame to the glorious name of Jesus.

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Reply by kez @ 11:16 on Aug 21 2008

that was a really stupid comment Jim.

Reply by Kevin Seiuli in Sydney, Australia @ 15:42 on Aug 21 2008

Jimbolean Jim, I am perplexed as to why you would post such angry words.

Are you so holy, without sin and have made no mistakes in your life that you can pass jugdment on someone? Sure, he was in the public eye and lied about what he had or didn't have BUT isn't a sin a sin regardless of how big or small it is or if it is made in public or not?

Need I remind you of John 8? Verse 7 perhaps? When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Matthew 7:5: "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye" (not "paraphrasing" but the NIV version).

Ultimately, God will be Michaels Judge as well as everyone else here now and who has ever lived so leave the judgement to the Almighty, get into the word and pray for him, his friends and family during this tough time rather post such indignant, ill-informed & unjustified comments.

We are all part of the body of Christ and as much as the World (including many christians) have all jumped on the bandwagon to attack and condemn the church at large through Mikes actions, we need to stand united and show solidarity with Jesus as the centre and the focus of all this so that God is always glorified in the midst of all this chaos.

Let Go Jimbolean Jim and Let God do the rest.

Reply by Frank in Kalgoorlie @ 02:53 on Aug 22 2008

It is hard to find a Hero of Faith in my Bible that didn't fall from grace. Thank God for Jesus because I would't get to Heavan if I had to earn my place.

Reply by Tim in Brisbane @ 06:04 on Aug 23 2008

Wow mate. If only you know what Hillsong is doing for the people of the world - those in strive and lost and in pain (physically or spiritually). Don't speak with ignorance. Money while necessary (even when doing God's will) on earth is never Hillsong's focus. Whats wrong with being excellent in music or worship - when circular bands are doing it? Shouldn't the people of God be leading the way in every facet of life?

Posted by Kerrie Logan in Armidale NSW @ 06:14 on Aug 21 2008

Beautiful and solid response to a very disappointing situation, well done Mr. Fletcher :)

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Posted by Anthony Venn-Brown in Sydney Australia @ 06:21 on Aug 21 2008

its a tragedy for all concerned Mal. Our humanity is unavoidable. I look forward to understanding more of what has lead to this unfortunate situation. The media reports are not always the most reliable sources of information as we know.

Danny, Sharon, the family and Michael must be under enormous pressure. My heart goes out to them. Exposure of secrets is always difficult…….but the public one is that much more traumatic…..and can take years to recover from.

As a person who has had to personally deal with this level of trauma…….. I think it’s a miracle that I’ve actually come through what I went through alive and with my sanity in tact….and eventually to regain my faith in God and people…… I’m very familiar with the issues they will all be facing at the moment.

From experience what I can say is that the needs of the moment are friends. Friends who will be non-judgemental, supportive...and be there for absolutely everyone.

Out of great tragedies come great miracles.

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Posted by gen in adelaide @ 06:57 on Aug 21 2008

i am so sad to hear what has happened. i cannot imagine what the family must be going through and Mike himself. it is sad that so man people are judging him when everyone has skeletons in their own closets. i will be praying for God to show Michael the reality of His grace and bring what has become such a mess to a peaceful end...

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Posted by Sasha in adelaide @ 08:08 on Aug 21 2008

Thank you for your wisdom & insight Mal.
This situation is grieving, but as you said, it holds no less importance for healing than a physical ailment does.
God Bless them!

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Posted by johnny brennan in mandurah w.a. @ 08:25 on Aug 21 2008

lets assemble the floc and gather around micheal and his family at this time...not later now...bless you micheal and family

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Posted by Inga Watzdorf in Sydney, Australi @ 08:39 on Aug 21 2008

Thank you Mal for your wisdom, compassion and for pointing out what every Christian and especially Christian leaders can learn from this sad situation!

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Posted by Sally in Perth @ 09:51 on Aug 21 2008

I'd like to say thank you too, i found your words really encouraging, and actually inspiring. As well, I think too many people are being way too judgmental over this situation! We've all sinned, and all sin is equal through the eyes of God- wether SOME people like to believe it or not:)- thats reality!

But its just so true that these situations prove the power of God's Grace and that we all fall short of God's Glory- even David- who was the AMAZING Man after God's own heart- did some pretty heavy stuff- but we still see God's abundance of Grace and mercies, which is just totally unreal!
And i just cant wait to see how God turns this situation around.

-Out of Great tragedies come great miricles--- SO TRUE!!

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Posted by kate in melbourne @ 09:52 on Aug 21 2008

In my humble opinion, perhaps this news will not so much affect the church and its believers. Christians, I'd like to believe, are a forgiving lot and we ourselves know, that we should never ever depend on someone or put too much high hopes in anything other than God.

I think it stops there though. What happens when this news gets to non-believers? They are the ones whom need salvation and need a good perception of the Christian faith. Here is the part I am confused about what to do? It's not how we react to this situation, it is more about what we say to our non-Christian friends when they come knocking for answers? How can we explain to them the magnitude of what has happened has nothing to do with our faith?

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Reply by Suzy Q in Brisbane @ 15:23 on Aug 22 2008

Hi Kate
In response to your great question " What happens when this news gets to non-believers? They are the ones whom need salvation and need a good perception of the Christian faith. Here is the part I am confused about what to do? It's not how we react to this situation, it is more about what we say to our non-Christian friends when they come knocking for answers? How can we explain to them the magnitude of what has happened has nothing to do with our faith?" My thoughts in reply would be 1st) Be honest about how YOU feel about being betrayed 2nd) Have an open discussion with them about some of the things that can make human beings vulnerable. For example, what are our basic human needs (like acceptance, security, unconditional love etc). Then discuss some of the known ways people try to meet these needs- are there healthy ways? destructive ways? Which ways lead to life and happiness? which ways lead to pain, loneliness etc etc. (Hope this is all making sense to you?) Finally, discuss from your own testimony, the difference that Jesus makes in meeting your real human needs.
This is the most amazing opportunity to witness we may all have in a while!! I hope you can 'see' with spiritual eyes what I am saying.
This comes from going through the most devastating experience of my Christian life about 12 months ago. So I have wrestled with this issue of abuse and betrayal from the Shepherd of our large flock.
LOve to you and others who are hurting. There is gold in this opportunity to share Jesus with others. Hope you will discern it :o)

Posted by Graeme Lauridsen in New Zealand @ 10:36 on Aug 21 2008

Thanks Mal. Your thoughtful comments are a tremendous help. Thank God our Redeemer lives.

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Posted by John Irwin in Gold Coast Aust @ 11:41 on Aug 21 2008

My wife came home very upset about this event so much so that I had to look it up on line. I had seen Michaels video on you tube and what an amazing story he told, and was also taken back by this story. The Lord knows the frailty of man that is why he died for each one of us. and it is in Him that we put our trust, and He is able to forgive us of our sins. We are but men and he has placed His light in us as belivers in Him. What have we done lately to reach the lost? This could be one way to reach out to others in love and forgiveness and also pray for our leaders. Your message Mal realy touched me and took my eyes off of Michaels situation and placed them back on to my responsibility to pray for him his family and church. Let us not judge as Jesus said let him who has not sinned cast the first stone.

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Posted by Klaas in Melbourne @ 11:44 on Aug 21 2008

Good article, well written

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Posted by Jamie Farrell in UK @ 12:03 on Aug 21 2008

A very sad day indeed for believers world-wide who have been endlessly praying for Mike's healing. I guess the good news is that he isn't dying...the better news is that God's grace CAN and WILL redeem him.
As far as judgement and condemnation goes...let's just remember how Jesus dealt with such things...who remembers that verse; "he who is without sin, cast the first stone." Let's just leave the judging up to God, eh? =)
When I heard the news, I found myself asking why God still does great works through people like this, even though they're living a lie. For example, Mike G has travelled the world and seen hundreds, if not thousands, come to Christ through his preaching...in the same way, Todd Bentley has been the focal point of the latest "outpouring" yet all this has come out about him, too.
I found my answer from God when He made me realise that God is God, and we are all frail, imperfect, and failing human beings. We should keep that in perspective and not put people on such high pedistals.
For those who have come to Christ through Mike's preaching...you have to imagine that this news will be a great test to their faith...did they become Christians because God is so awesome...or did they do it because Mike convinced them to...? Obviously I'm hoping that the majority of them were touched by God's power rather than Mike's enthusiastic preaching style.
At the end of it all...none of us are perfect, and just as we would want to know people are praying for us when we've been embarrassed; let's also pray for Mike, and emotional healing for his family and quick redemption.

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Reply by Tim in Melbourne @ 22:28 on Aug 21 2008

How did they come to Christ?

Can anyone truly come to Christ through the words of another man without the work of the Holy Spirit? It does not matter as long as they come to Christ.

This is disappointing but accepting responsibility for your actions and if necessary in this case being punished by authorities for fraud is not mutually exclusive from prayer and forgiveness. I'm glad the Church took action against him.

Nice article Mal, the Billy Graham comment about the planes landing is poignant.

Reply by Peter Di Girolamo in Newcastle, NSW @ 23:19 on Aug 21 2008

I have a brother who has backslidden some years ago, who has ripped into me, for believing in all the Christian hype that he see and hears (he's an avid You Tube junkee) And now to be faced with the Todd Bentley and Mike Guglielmucci incidents, will be challenging to put a positive spin. I enjoyed reading your comments, and right now what we need is to search our hearts and humble ourselves before the mighty hand of God to lift us up.

As the young man, a few comments above said, he owes a lot to the Guglielmucci family, as Pastor Danny was able to lead the young man to faith during his difficult times.

For all of those, reading and posting messages, let us pray for Pastor Danny and send words of encouragement.

Thank you Pastor Danny for being a fatherly figure to many of us young men, who today are serving God all around the country. Thank you for helping us in our time of need, and now is the time for us young men, to lift up your arms in your time of need.

Posted by Karen in Adelaide @ 12:23 on Aug 21 2008

Thank you Mal, this is something which is very hard to come to terms with.

I would just like to say I just cannot understand how a condition like this could be faked. Mike spent a time in hospital, receiving treatment for this condition and I understand his family were with him when he was diagnosed. Plus he has had broken bones because of his condition.

I am looking forward to more detail and find it sad that when someone does something so good (in his work for our youth) that no one cares - but if someone fails then we allow the media to plaster it all over the world causing embarrassement for those involved. This news will go away and the media will be onto the next event. I just feel there is more to this than we are being told at the moment.

I thank you for your words and your encouragement to people to not judge Mike and to continue to pray for him as this is just a different kind of illness, and deserves the same prayers and kindness from us.

If it was totally fraud then I am proud of Mike for coming out and telling us all. This took guts and our youth should value what it took for Mike to speak out.

Let the first person who casts a stone be the one who has never sinned! For all have sinned and God so loved the world he came to save sinners. The healthy do not need a doctor but the sick people do - And they do not deserve our judgement.

My love and my prayers go out to Mike, Danny, Sharon and all their family as well as all the congregation at Edge Church.

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Posted by Rick in Sydney @ 12:45 on Aug 21 2008

It is indeed a very sad day for the cause of Christ and for all concerned. How tempting it would be to pick up a stone and throw it. Yet how wrong that would be too. Thank you Mal for a balanced and thought provoking article.

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Posted by DK in Australia @ 14:13 on Aug 21 2008

Matthew 7:16-20 reads:
"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus by their fruit you will recognize them."

Doesn't anyone here believe in the Doctrine of Regeneration? How about Sanctification?

Does anyone here even know what that IS anymore - what it means and how that applies in this situation?

Rom 6:15-18 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

"God will maintain his Holiness - we will give it willingly, or He will maintain it - but at our expense" - Richard Owen Roberts.

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Posted by Brad Kelly in Australia @ 14:26 on Aug 21 2008

Thanks for an article that gives us all a starting point for thinking through the issues. I have been thinking about this all day and discussing it with friends, and I still am not any closer to understanding why. I hope that he can be restored in love, and that this prompts a discussion of some of the wider issues that might have triggered this lie - whatever they may be. Perhaps, as you suggest in your article, the craving for the adoration of a crowd?

I agree with the other comment that young people will be most hurt by this, and as a Christian school teacher, I will certainly be saving the link and sending any young people to this article when it will no doubt be discussed.
Cheers, Brad

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Posted by john citizen in australia @ 15:08 on Aug 21 2008

am i the only person who thinks this is bigger than just one guy making a mistake? if it wasn't Mike G it was going to be somebody else. It was only a matter of time before someone came along and exploited the system. This culture that told us that all you needed to stand above the rest was bucketloads of charisma and the ability to pull a crowd. maybe now the leaders of our movement will have the balls to put a stop to this preposterous celebrity culture in the body of christ. well at least those that aren't too busy trying to be famous themselves.

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Reply by Kelly in Adelaide @ 00:10 on Aug 22 2008

Well said Brad! For far too long we have taught people, especially our young people to look to those in leadership, or those with a charismatic personality. What about teaching them Christ first and that those who preach Christ are merely servants fulfilling their calling through Christ.

Reply by vawz in Perth @ 00:17 on Aug 22 2008

SPOT ON!

Reply by Finulla in Adelaide @ 02:07 on Aug 23 2008

Totally agree with that one. If people are angry let them vent. It is a human response to deception. I am certainly praying for the family who must feel the hurt the most.

Posted by nurse natti in Australia @ 15:17 on Aug 21 2008

For anyone who has kids here....have you ever told your kids "if you be honest and tell me the truth I will forgive you"?

I know that I have.

I cannot imagine how hard it must have been for Mike to come out, as he did, and confess his sin.

Who are we to throw stones?

Maybe this is exactly why we should never look to the 'donkey' but to Jesus...

Maybe that is one thing we can say to our non believing friends.

Isn't Christianity all about CHRIST...

Christ not only entertained sinners, but he LOVED them unconditionally. The pharisees had it all 'worked out'..."You should do this, you shouldn't do that".
But Jesus came and was REAL.

We ARE all human.

We ALL sin.

We are ALL forgiven, when we confess our sin before God. Do any of the people criticizing Mike know for a fact that he hasn't done this?

Thank you God for your grace.

Thank you for the Holy Spirit, who can give us the words to say when non-believers ask about such things.

A beautiful article, Mal.

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Posted by Mike in in Nashville TN @ 16:34 on Aug 21 2008

Hey Mal. Great article - thanks. So often, Christians act like rats off a sinking ship - we 'run away run away' from controversy. But unfortunately, in the running, we stop, look back, and throw stones.

I am heartily disappointed in Mike G - however, I rejoice that he IS part of the Kingdom of God - for if such a thing disqualifies him from God's love, then I (and the rest of you) are out on our ears as well.

Many people I know will (and do) feel broken by Mike G's admission - notwithstanding his wife, parents and those close - but, we love and serve a God who was broken on our behalf. Who poured out his grace on those of us who don't deserve it, including Mike.

Grace, grace, God's grace
Grace that is greater than all our sin
Grace, grace, God's grace
Grace that is greater than all our sin

Father - thankyou for your grace. We do the most foolish things sometimes, but you never turn away from us - never abandon us - never forsake us. And your promise still holds firm - that you will be with us always, even to the end of the age. God, I speak your great peace not only into Mike's life, but into that of his families lives as well. You are the great Healer, still... and we pray for your healing. Wrap them in your arms God - never let them go. In the great and marvellous name of Jesus... Amen

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Posted by Kevin Seiuli in Sydney, Australia @ 17:41 on Aug 21 2008

Encouraging and inspirational insight Mal.

For those who are still irate & infuriated & unforgiving, Here's Romans 12:9-19,21

9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.
11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. 14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
15Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. 17Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.
19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

To end off this marathon of a post (please accept my apologies), Here's the 1st verse & chorus of Reverend Al Green's Song "The Message is Love".

1st VERSE:
All around the world there are people crying,
Can't find something to believe,
They put so much faith in people who are lying, They're so easy to deceive
It ain't no mystery, you know the words to set you free,
There for all the world to see,
When you got it on your side, There's no reason left to hide,
You've got to give it to receive

CHORUS:
Love is the message and the message is love,
From the streets to the mountains to the heavens above,
Tell everybody what you're dreaming of,
Tell them Love is the message and the message is love

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Posted by Brad Hawkes in Birmingham @ 17:50 on Aug 21 2008

Thanks Mal for your wisdom and maturity.

Let's all learn not to worship or exalt anyone but Jesus himself, the only one who will never deceive us or disappoint us.

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Posted by still confused... in melbourne @ 19:00 on Aug 21 2008

I am still shocked about this news. I am not trying to create more controversy here. but i'm really just trying to grapple this situation as a genuine believer.

I guess what I feel uncomfortable is, that we have focused so much on Grace that the severity of 'Sin' we commit - and I don't mean just what Mike did - but also what we ALL do - everyday - is downplayed... by far. Actions that are deemed as "sin" need to be condemened - don't they? We don't condemn the person BECAUSE OF THEIR SIN (because all of us fall short and all of us who believe have been redeemed by Him alone), but we can't brush over the fact that one has sinned. and it is of a significant impact when this sin plays a domino effect and causes so many stumble and fall.

When we are taught not to judge: then should we not act as if to assume that God will make lightly of the mistakes we make? Throughout the OT and NT, God has shown mercy, forgiveness and love to those who truly repent of their sins... but the requirement is that one truly repents - and who are we to know if a person truly repents or not?

Well, at the moment, we have no further background to Mike's story to know - so only God knows... and even if we have the "background" - who can fathom how God will deal with him? (this isn't to say Mike isn't truly repentant, I'm just trying to objectively grasp this verse: 1 Corinthians 4:5 "judge nothing before the appointed time")

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Posted by still confused (2) in melbourne @ 19:04 on Aug 21 2008

And I also keep in mind what Paul wrote in Romans 5:9-13 about expelling the immoral brothers.

vs 9: "I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people - not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral... But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother bus is sexually immoral..."

vs 12: "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"

What am I supposed to make out of these verses? (this isn't a rhetorical question. I am genuinely asking) And in 2 Corinth 11:13-15:

"And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light."

This incident has challenged me: how does Love and Grace sit with Discernment and being Cautious not to be "deceived by the serpent's cunning"?

But... in the midst of all my questions, I will still pray for Mike, his family and all those affected in this incidence.

I think our whole body has been somehow shaken. But hopefully, after this shake, more impurities will be shaken away from our body to leave what can't be shaken away...

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Posted by Dan in Japan @ 19:22 on Aug 21 2008

No need to heap scorn on the guy people, I am sure he is doing that enough himself.

That said.......why are people praising him for coming out and admitting the fraud? Though it isn't written anywhere yet, it is just as likely that he confessed under threat of being exposed.

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Posted by san in Malaysia @ 20:33 on Aug 21 2008

Thank you for sharing. I'm probably one of the young ones who were pretty much affected by it.

But truly right now, instead of feeling all so disappointed, we should joint our hearts together in prayer not only to even uphold their ps danny's family in prayers and at the same time to even pray for all the churches globally.

Right now, at this point, we should not lose sight from God. Truly this is a time where many faith will be tested and challenged. I pray that they will grow stronger in God.

God bless you.

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Posted by Geoffrey Khoo in Hamilton, New Zealand @ 21:29 on Aug 21 2008

I can't deny that I'm quite shocked and disappointed by all this. I have spoken highly of Michael, from what I have personally heard from his father, Danny. Now I need to take that back, etc, blah but that is my own problem and I need to deal with that.

The big question that goes through my mind is however, "WHY?" How could one think to go through a deception like this and not have it eventually exposed? I feel for the church in general, as the media will have a circus over this. I feel for those who do not yet know Christ, that another potential block to them accepting Him as Lord and Saviour has been erected.

I definitely agree that we shouldn't shoot the wounded. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I have nothing bad to say about or to Michael but if I were to meet him, I would definitely ask...

"What were you thinking?"

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Posted by JustinRobinson in Perth, Western Australia @ 22:48 on Aug 21 2008

We have heard this news and have read in shock. Christians of all different backgrounds are either slamming Pastor Michael or encouraging him. The truth of the matter is that it did not come as a shock to God. God knew this would happen, nothing surprises God. I still see Michael as a pastor. He made a mistake that is true, but who hasn't? Lets look at the situation in God's eyes. God loves Pastor Michael unconditionally and we should too. Romans 3:23 tells it like it is. We have all sinned, before Christ and after receiving Christ. Lets pray to our Father that He restores Pastor Michael to the level he was at before. To God be the glory in Jesus mighty name...

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Posted by L.C in England @ 22:50 on Aug 21 2008

and thank you aswell, Mal for this insight. Of course, as soon as my mind starts to try and comes to terms with things like this.. it just wanders into doubt and distress. That's, I guess where the enemy gets his grip on us.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I can only fear God more through these situations.

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Posted by Louisa @ 23:35 on Aug 21 2008

This article has really made me think..
A few friends told me about Mike this evening and I couldn't believe it... I didn't understand at all and I felt a little cheated.

But i believe the Lord can use this for good. To stop people depending on leaders and making people celebrities and actually fix their eyes on Jesus and make Him their hero... after all, He's the one we should be worshipping.

God has been drawing me to seek Him and only Him just recently and where this may shake people's faith, I pray God uses it to draw his people to Him. Then these sorts of things will not impact people's faith in Jesus, but drive them to seek His face.

It has also made me realise God's grace more and more and as many people have said, not to judge as we've all sinned and fallen short of God's standards but we have a God whose love is unconditional and his grace is enough to cover every one of our sins... Thank you Jesus... we'd be lost without You!

Who am I to judge Mike, or anyone else... Judging is not my job, but support, love and encouragement is.

I hope Mike makes a statement to explain how this happened but if he doesn't, I'll be ok.. I have my Jesus and He's all I need!

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Posted by Glen in Newcastle @ 01:05 on Aug 22 2008

Mike will suffer humiliation. And the fact is, he'll deserve it.

Forgiveness seems to be a knee-jerk reaction. What did Larry Norman say? "Grace isn't a place to wipe your feet". Nowadays I see it used as a rug to sweep under the dirty little secrets and hide them away.

Forget about restoration. When a leader falls that badly they've proven that they're not worthy of the position. If a bank manager embezzles money they don't move him to another branch, or promote him, or look forward to soon seeing him back in the position.

Sure, we're the church, we're different. If or when Mike is ready he can come back and be a part of the congregation. Rather than your family and their friends fast track your restoration process and get you back on stage.

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Reply by Allan in Wollongong @ 13:07 on Aug 22 2008

Glen, you wrote....Forgiveness seems to be a knee-jerk reaction.

I'm not sure what you mean by this but Forgiveness should be second nature shouldn't it? I cant understand a single person who would claim the forgiveness of Christ then not expect it for others. There needs to be accountability...true, but of course Mike should be forgiven! not as a knee-jerk reaction but because it is our responsibility or obligation to forgive!

You also wrote......Forget about restoration. When a leader falls that badly they've proven that they're not worthy of the position.......who is worthy of the position? my understanding is that we have ALL fallen short of being worthy.

I find it hard to understand what Mike has done, but i find it harder still to understand the bitterness and anger that seems to be coming from some people. Words of anger will not fix the problem they will infuriate an already painful situation and help to further damage.

Of course forgive and forgive and forgive again, those that choose not to only damage themselves.

Posted by Cameron Jones in London @ 01:26 on Aug 22 2008

A few years ago I was an ordinary teenager in Perth and he looked after me, encouraged me, gave me money, lifts and often I would crash at his house when I was struggling with the issues of life. He rarely had money back then and looked out for a lot of people like me.

To me he was an inspiration, both from the platform, but also on a personal level. Like a lot people out there. I too am shocked at what I discovered when a close friend called me what had happened.

All the same, my life is different because of him and the way he encouraged me to look to Jesus Christ and God. I do feel confused and can't really comment what he has done in the last few years.

Cameron

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Reply by Grace Summerton in Adelaide @ 11:43 on Aug 22 2008

Hi Cameron just a thought on your comments, always remember the goodness of ones actions in love as this will help you to remember christ action for you on the cross. i can honestly say when your eyes are fixed on jesus there is no confusion,but there is a deeper understanding of those who falter. Be encouraged and know that God is in control of your preciouse life

Posted by Chinyama in Sydney @ 02:11 on Aug 22 2008

Men with frailties and limitations are the same ones that God has decided to use so that the surpassing glory may be unto him and not us. It's very important to keep perspective that the messenger is not the message and therefore his fallibility does not nullify the harvest that has come as a result of his obedience now that he has hit a pothole on his way to destiny. He is as anointed and gifted today as he was a couple of years ago because the calling and gift of God is without repentance. As one of us I say lets carry him from the battle front and dress his wounds. We are not of those who rejoice when one of us fails because we all have a common enemy who wants reap at all costs. To the Guglielmucci family I say this too shall pass... Lift your eyes to Him who is constant in this changing world. Thank you Mal for your great insight, I look forward to seeing you at the Hillsong Men's Conference. Shalom!

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Posted by michelle webber in australia @ 02:24 on Aug 22 2008

Once again , we need to ""Turn our eyes upon Jesus"" Please keep looking xxoo

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Posted by vange pana adelaide in s.a @ 03:05 on Aug 22 2008

I am sad by what i have seen, and pray for mike and all close to him. But also pray that satan does not destroy peoples faith. As someone once said, I AM A GREAT SINNER BUT HE IS A GREATER SAVIOUR. AMEN. LOOK UNTO JESUS BROTHER.

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Posted by Ruth in Melbourne, Australia @ 04:05 on Aug 22 2008

Most of us will never have our most intimate moments splashed over the world like Mike and his family have. I would not for a moment want to be in their shoes and have only to say I am praying for them all. It must be a terrible thing to go through and as so many have said - we have all done things wrong - its easy to point the finger - lets respond with praying for those who are suffering the most in all of this - Mike and his family and close friends. But for the grace of God there go we. Well written article Mal!

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Posted by Hmmmm... in Perth @ 04:24 on Aug 22 2008

I agree that this is a great article. Well balanced and reassuring for those who are shocked and asking questions. In times of trouble, we band together, not seperate our wounded. Saying that, as an outsider to this situation, please don't allow this situation to be all about forgiveness and moving on. We need to stop, reflect on how this has happened and why it has happened. This guy represents so much of what youth ministry is about in Australia and we need to make sure that we soberly assess what this all means. I;ve know Mike in the past and know that he is a great guy, but I still think the question of why he choose this path is essential.

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Posted by Christy in Christchurch @ 05:48 on Aug 22 2008

Grace - unmerited favour.
Who are we to say that one person is 'better' than the other?
Remember...
Christ is still Christ.
Christ came to cover ALL sin.
Who are we to judge?
God. Loves. All.
God. Forgives. ALL.

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Posted by Nathan Finochio in Toronto, ON, Canada @ 06:18 on Aug 22 2008

Well said, Mal.

I believe church leadership need to take this a step further and NOT build a monument to Mike's mistake.

I heard of a large church here in Canada that made an announcement regarding the mishap at their music practice, and then broke up into small groups to "pray for each other" because people were "wounded".

Give me a freaking break.

If people are wounded it's because they're guilty of idolatry. They've become "of the world" and allowed themselves to worship humanity like the rest of the "American Idol/Rockstar" society.

Jesus never built a monument to Peter's denial. He restored Peter, and did so lovingly and publicly.

What's worse? Getting caught up in a lie, or denying Jesus publicly THREE TIMES?

Bottom line, we've created a church culture of inertia, and because of our self-propagating emphases, we hurt ourselves when leaders goof up.

Let God build; this is another beautiful piece of His redemptive life-art, made of broken things-- a mosaic of mercy kept in memory's museum, to remind us of God's ability to create something from nothing.

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Posted by Mihael McCoy in Perth @ 06:35 on Aug 22 2008

Mal, your comments are right on the mark. The reality is that many "great men" of the Bible who were used mightily by God also had very serious moral and personal failings--David, Samson, Moses, many of the disciples also. This is a reminder to me of our humanity. Situations like this enable us to truly understand that "who can know his own heart?" revealing an even greater need for a Saviour. Questions will need to be asked and answers given, but I suspect the song "Healer" will perhaps have even greater meaning for the church and its author after the storm settles.

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Posted by Michelle in Vic,Melbourne @ 06:53 on Aug 22 2008

I was there when he said that to me and all my friends, now to hear this makes me sick and cry that he told soo many kids aged 11-18 and he asked them to help him with the cost of money and all and because us young people belived and gave so much money.

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Reply by Cathy in SA @ 15:54 on Aug 22 2008

Dear Michelle
What you and your friends gave and did for Mike… will be blessed by the Lord because you did it out of the sincerity of your heart and believed what he said was true.
Now, Mike is the one who is responsible to the Lord for the lie he told you and the Lord will deal with him as He thinks is best.
You don’t give up believing in God because He is the only one you should be putting your trust in and He will heal your hurt also.
God will bless you in return.
Don’t be discouraged. Put your Trust in God and not in Man.

It is better to take refuge in the LORD
than to trust in man (Psalm 118:8 NIV)

Posted by Janelle in Perth @ 06:55 on Aug 22 2008

Thanks Mal,
Every word you wrote is also my prayer. My first response was that I felt sorry, and my heart hurt for Mike and his family. I pray that as we all pray together for all those concerned that God's love will shine out. We are his people and the sheep of his pasture everyone of us. When that lost sheep was found he was cared for and brought into the fold as one. That should be our response. Thanks again for your words.

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Posted by Nick in Adelaide @ 07:40 on Aug 22 2008

Very disappointing - especially on top of Tod Bentley's fall last week. We forgive the sinner, but can't forget the 100s or 1000s of 'potential' Christians who will never come to the faith because of these poor testimonies, and the many who will give up on the faith here and in Florida.
Top down leadership in churches (elevating position and power), rather than a priesthood of all believers has caused this problem.
We recently joined an emergent-type church where everyone simply shares a meal together and contributes (church2.net) and we will never go back to this!

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Posted by Danni in Australia @ 08:16 on Aug 22 2008

Beautifully said, and I agree wholeheartedly. :)

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Posted by Tams in Melbourne @ 08:27 on Aug 22 2008

Isn't the name of Jesus enough?Isn’t Gods testimony of unfailing love enough? Isn't the fact that we are justified through the death and resurrection of GOD our Lord Jesus Christ enough? Why do we always seem to look to man?
If we believe the Gospel for our selves then we better have the balls to believe it for Mike too…
As much as his actions disgust me, I mean what he has done is such a disgraceful act of betrayal and so forth...
But these are our options…
1.) Love God
2.) Love our Neighbour (Mike)
This doesn't mean...we love what mike has done; this doesn’t mean we shouldn’t feel justified in being hurt, because I’m sure a lot of us are....
What I am saying is God knows Mike’s heart, he knows his motives...And God died fort this man just as he did you and me. I think this is the perfect situation to express and demonstrate Gods character of Grace and unfailing love, and leave God to clean up the mess and pass Judgment. After all…God did create the earth I’m pretty sure he will be able to sort this whole thing out no trouble, all he wants from us is for our hearts to be pure before him. All we have to do is pray and seek and get to know God more intimately so we can understand what we need to do in a situation such as this. I don't understand when Christians such as "Roost" and "Jim" react with such condemnation and judgment.
Have you never sinned...Do you not understand the love God holds for you is the same love he has for Mike?
We as Christians should be making it as easy as possible for Mike to run back to God.
I mean what about King David in the Bible....he fell terribly and there were consequences.
But they were Gods consequences, not ours. All in all he ran back to God...you could pretty much say he sprinted back to GOd.....God is a just God.... he will be the Judge weather we see the effects of that on this earth or not???!!!

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Posted by Annette in Australia @ 08:47 on Aug 22 2008

Blessing & Peace to you all. I know & understand how hurt & disappointed everyone is right now. I Praise God because I think that God has indeed answered our Prayers,There is now indeed hope for healing for Mike, it just is not what we thought. We have all been in darkness at one time or another, now that Mike has taken the step bringing that darkness(lie) into the light. There is hope. Do not forget we have an adversary who roams around seeking whom he can devour, & just because Mike is someone in leadership & the public eye does not make him any less vunerable to the schemes of the Devil.Take heart God has known from the beginning everything to do with Michael, remember he is the Alpha Omega all knowing wonderful Creator. So Run to him with your hurt & pain. KEEP ON PRAYING FOR HIM & FAMILY GOD BLESS Annette

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Posted by Annette in Australia @ 09:22 on Aug 22 2008

Hi Mal, Thank You for your insight to a difficult situation, with people all over the world reeling from the news of Mike. The wounds are open & real. So God Bless You All.
May Gods Love, Grace & Mercy continue to rain down to a fallen humanity, is not this the very reason Jesus came?

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Posted by Seth in London @ 11:06 on Aug 22 2008

It is good to hear words in the Spirit of Wisdom and Truth at a time where opinions and reports are flying all around from both the saved and lost world. We all continue to pray for Mike and his family, as well as for all those whose faith may have been cut deep as a result of this. And we know that what the Devil means for bad, God has a fantastic way of turning around for good.

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Posted by John in Australia @ 12:16 on Aug 22 2008

After reading a lot of comments don't let one persons fall stop you from doing Gods will in your life. Some thing can take over our focus and what or call in life is for.Jesus said 'The harvest is ripe but very few harvesters'. Dont let the devil take this situation and use it for himself.

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Posted by David Evans in Melbourne VIC @ 12:34 on Aug 22 2008

Great word Mal,
In a prophetic way I feel this situation has revealed ‘a pressure’ that a whole generation of young people in church grew up with in Australia through the glory days of a movement called youth alive. We all went to the same rallies and conferences however underneath it all was “a pressure”. This obviously wasn’t taught – it was just felt. There was a competition felt in the atmosphere between states and leaders for bigger, better, more! Bragging rights. I know because I sadly contributed to it. Even though the fruit was awesome as hundreds of thousands came to Christ, something was being triggered in certain hearts that nobody could see and address… Some of us made conclusions of everything we experienced and sadly those conclusions were based on a foundational lie. The lie we believed was that you get more “kudos” or “rewarded” if you do something “successful” for God. I have (through great personal pain) realized recently that the Lord is more interested in “who” we are than in anything we ever will do for Him. Mike must of felt that ‘pressure’ of becoming and doing something great more than most. The pressure to satisfy that need to be somebody, achieve the honor and respect of others. This becomes a stumbling block. This foundation lie affects everything. It infects your relationships, distorts your worldview regarding your values and so on. It starts with a small lie that makes you feel good when you see reactions to it are favorable. And then like Chinese whispers the lie needs another lie and it gets way out of hand. I believe Mike couldn’t bring it back… but God allowed him to continue…. It’s another lesson to the church. Your thoughts are based on what you believe. Question your assumptions against the Word of God. Do they line up? Because your thought become who you are! And everything will eventually be revealed whether it is of honor or shame.

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Posted by Olivia in UK @ 14:03 on Aug 22 2008

i'm really sad to hear this but i want to let everyone know, that song healed my brokeness and is healing a lot of other people, let 's not focus on the people behind these songs and messages as they're mere humans like us, this doesnt excuse the act but should help us understand our focus is on Jesus and not on any preacher, they are just vessels trough which these messages get to us. That said, let all of us christians pray for him, he needs it , God never turns his back on a sincerely repantant soul.

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Posted by Confused in UK @ 14:24 on Aug 22 2008

David Evans is correct. It is ridiculous to compete like that. It goes on. Biggest church. Biggest event. Biggest conference. Biggest number of salvations. Biggest.... - Grow up boys. Sadly it's the MO of a lot of evangelical churches. Thrust someone up on the platform who you can tout as a 'somebody'. Don't worry if they're not ready for it. If it all goes wrong, you can just blame the 'enemy'.

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Posted by Sarah Nelson in Sacramento, CA @ 18:44 on Aug 22 2008

I was so sad to hear the news about Mike today. I loved your article and your graciousness. More than that even...I loved reading the feedback. Such love for the person regardless of the fault. As a slightly religiously disillusioned American...it's so refreshing to read. I'm afraid most believers in my own country won't be so gracious... for whatever reason we tend to think it's our job to analyze the falls of others. As for me, I'm praying for Mike and his family that the Lord brings restoration to them and he be made whole again. I know that regardless or how the song came about...it's still powerful and God can and will still use it. Thanks, Mal for your insight. It's so helpful.

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Posted by steve in adelaide @ 18:49 on Aug 22 2008

i went to hugh school with you michael, i'm in shock that your such a fraud!!! what else have you been lying about?

let me guess... in a couple of months when this all dies down you'll come out and ask for forgivness in a big show like you did with the oxygen tubes and all will be forgiven! i can bet you'll be that predictable! this is not on!

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Posted by in adelaide @ 19:07 on Aug 22 2008

mal, i'm sure your only publishing stories on this site that support your argument so i sincerly doubt that i'll see this comment on there....

michael is a liar! he fooled lots of people into believe something with a lie, in any other profession he'd be charged with fraud, forgivness with time maybe! of course your backing michael mal, you work for the same church! we're not all stupid!

i'm dissapointed beyond belief with michael and even more with your organisation for backing this! i know i wont ever see this comment published, so what's the point?...

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Posted by Adam Jackowski in Brisbane @ 06:21 on Aug 23 2008

I find it's when these things happen that we can discover what love is. Love is based on our decision not the actions of others. God loves us because of who he is, not what we do (my beautiful wife bestowed this revelation upon me). We just have to learn to be like him (a great reason to talk with Him). It's hard because we constantly risk being hurt or let down - but the rewards are so great. If things like this stop us loving we have to ask the question of ourselves - Did we really love them at all?

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Posted by Simon MacDougal-Mars in Adelaide, SA @ 10:15 on Aug 23 2008

Jesus is bigger

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Posted by Mark C Martin in Adelaide, South Australia @ 11:05 on Aug 23 2008

...because they're liars? duh!

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Posted by in Perth @ 14:25 on Aug 23 2008

Let's not be too weak to ask the hard questions: Why does the church create pedastals and put the charasmatic ones right up the top? Meakness, humility and servanthood are nowhere to be seen, but flash clothes, car and a killer set of lyrics might get you there. Show some grace but lets not be idiots!

Sad thing is, it'll happen again before we know it

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Posted by James in Sydney @ 16:36 on Aug 23 2008

I am terribly shaken by the news of the deception of Mr.Guglielmucci. In no words can i describe the dissapointment i feel. However, i am also deeply saddened by how far short of rebuking this disgraeful sin, yourself and our other so called "men of god" actually come. Have we forgotten that not only is god infinitely loving, merciful and forgiving, but he is also infintely righteous, vengeful and holy.
Have we forgotten James 3:1,where it says leaders will recieve stricter judgement? or have we forgotten in samuel, where God's anger was enraged when Eli did not rebuke his sons for their sins?

Stand For Truth. Ask the Spirit to guide you in what is right.

"....Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity"

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Reply by me in home @ 15:50 on Aug 24 2008

I think you've missed the point. it is not you who gets to pass judgement in order to satisfy the part of us that craves 'justice'. (and I use the term very loosly)

Yes Mike will suffer the consequences and his actions and has been judged by a righteous God, however, when Jesus hung on the cross He hung there for Mike in this moment of sin and for the rest of us in our moments of sin and he bore that judgement.

Get off your high horse, our sins are no better or worse than what Mike has done, just not as public.

Posted by mick in Adelaide @ 06:46 on Aug 24 2008

Just one more Christian fraud. My guess is that there are plenty more out there who will never be exposed.

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Posted by Ben in brisbane @ 14:21 on Aug 24 2008

this was written the day i herd the news:
this is immensely personal to me - mike was a friend. i have had meals with him and amanda.

i feel massively betrayed.i wept for him, i prayed for him and i cried out for healing for him. for what? it was all for nothing. when we was at Planetshakers conference in melbourne and sung healer i cried like a baby to see him on stage. seeing him sing that, when i at the time thought i knew how much it meant to him - meant so much to me.

i spent today with my Ex talking about it and i will be talking with my pastor after church on sunday. I'm really depressed over this. i used to really look up to Ps. Mike. he was an inspiration to me. now i all i have is pity. i pity the fact he felt like he had to do that, and than lie for so long. the only positives out of this are that i learnt of this from my church, not from someone else and now mike can get the help he needs to get his head straight.

i really feel sorry for Amanda, Kris, Danny and the entire Guglielmucci family. i will be lifting all of them up in my prayers.

addendum:

however, i have now come to the realization that although what mike did was a horrid act, i believe we can't let the devil win. my experience is that the devil attacks just before we are about to make major ground for god, and i believe that in a year ot two time we will look back and be happy at what has happened since this. this can also be good for a church as the "dead wood" - those looking for an excuse to leave will do so, and you are left stronger for this.

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Posted by MAN @ 05:11 on Aug 25 2008

"LEADER?" "LEADERSHIP"??????IS THAT IN THE BIBLE????

Just wondering,
the word “LEADER” how many times was it mentioned in the NEW (Jesus) TESTAMENT,
1-The KJV/NKJV/ASV/NIV I found NONE,
BUT in other translations I found a mention to the word leader couple of times and here it is:
-Mt 23:10 “Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ.
- Lu 22:26 “BUT IT IS NOT THIS WAY WITH YOU, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the SERVANT.
Well now we understand that Jesus did not come to recruit leaders….leadership maniacs, you wanna be a leader because off course you are TALENTED, FIND somewhere else to show off but not in the house of PRAYER.

BY the way, I here you asking, the word “SERVANT”, how many times was mentioned in “GRACE (NEW) TESTAMENT..you wouldn’t believe it!! Mr. “me me me I wanna be a leader in the church because I am talented”…..WHAT?!!
1- in KJV is 79 times
2- in NKJV is 80 times.
3- The American Standard Version 82times.
4- in NIV is 97 times
5- The Good News Translation 106 times!!!!!!
WATDDAA!!!! 2:106

Was that an accident?! well Jesus did not come to recruit “talented/awesome/handsome/gifted..etc LEADERS”
HE (Jesus)discipled his followers to SERVE SERVE SERVE
IN HUMILITY depending completely on their ONLY LEADER, JESUS THE SERVANT KING…..

STOP LEADING THIS LIFE STYLE BY SERVING AND ONLY SERVING…

ALSO a leader will have followers, and when he falls ....!!!!!
It would have been much better for them to follow the only MASTER...LEADER JESUS..

IT IS ABOUT TIME NOW, you started TEACHING the bible, instead of selling it?!

the bible does not need "SALT, PEPPER, AND SPICES", it is powerful enough if it is taught properly...

A Saved sinner!

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Reply by Bee in Sydney @ 12:40 on Aug 26 2008

this is the most pertinent post I have seen in two days of reading. Thanks

Posted by Graham O'Leary in Woodford Green Essex @ 10:59 on Aug 25 2008

I can see Jesus bending down and beginning to write in the sand....So I say Please Please Please guys remember how we all live our lives, how daily we fall short, how sometimes the thoughts in our heads could convict us for life, how so undeserving we are of forgiveness and grace yet our Lord and saviour holds nothing against us and freely forgives us time and time again. Yes there will be consequences for Mike for what he has done but God is well able to change, restore and use him for the Kingdom in other ways....Please don't throw stones guys....

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Posted by Rachel in New Zealand @ 14:09 on Aug 25 2008

I have read all of the current blogs on this web site so far...

Some thoughts that have stuck out to me:

This must be affecting some people more than others - Those whom were closest to Mike, those whom these events remind them of their own personal life events. - therefore people's reactions will be different based on these factors and the only contribution one person can ever give is from his/her own PERSONAL viewpoint. - No one can give an ultimate opinion. - Everything is coloured by the individual.

Therefore, it is my intention to take everything I read or hear about this situation as one small, coloured part of the bigger picture. (Including: blogs, interviews, newspaper articles, conversations with friends/leaders/relatives)

So far, some of my personal opinions are:

Love the sinner, hate the sin - The deception was abhorrent and there is no justifying it. But that is why God is so good - The worse the action, the more we see God's grace.

God does good things through people despite the bad things they do - When I was younger someone close to me completely betrayed my trust and if I just looked at that ONE action I would find it very hard to have any good opinion of him. But when I look at his life story, there is no denying the good God has done through him - Same for Mike.

Judgement is reserved for God AND those who have been put in authority over us: I am in no position to judge Mike but there are people who are - His leaders. - And as far as I have read so far, they seem to be doing exactly that. He has been suspended from his pasturing position, his father is getting him psychiatric help, and I am absolutely positive that there will be more follow up involved from the leadership in the ACC.

Hope this blog is useful for those out there (like me) who are trying to figure out where they stand and what they think

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Posted by Paul in Perth @ 18:56 on Aug 25 2008

Mal I am interested to know if you think that Mike should be held responsible for his actions. In the eyes of many this would be seen certainly from a criminal law point of view as him committing fraud, with the issues that he is currently being tested and diagnosed for they aren't really grounds for him to be held as not having a mental capactiy to know what he was doing is wrong and therefore could only be used in this circumstance as mitigatng rather than the cause. I am a firm believer in showing grace and forgiveness but I am also a firm believer and I believe the Bible also to suggest that when Christians sin we need to make them acknowledge that what they have done is wrong and where it involves the whole church community there should be sanction imposed. This may seem harsh to many but I think that those in fiath have given money and supported this apparent lie deserve to have their feelings of loss and being cheated met and managed effectively. I was wondering if you could comment in regards to church discipline and what your view on that is.

I see a continued growing deification of church leaders today that surfaced during Luther's time and he saw this and saw the Bible and enacted a protest and a reformation. I am a firm beleiver in forgiveness but I cannot see how we should let his actions go undisciplined. Nor can I see that from a Biblical perspective we should let him off without some form of action being taken. I welcome your response ot htis matter because many I have discussed this matter with seem to think we should simply let him off.

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Posted by Marion in Scotland @ 21:25 on Aug 25 2008

I have met Danny Gugliemucci and used his materials in our church.
My heart breaks for him and his wife. My prayer for them is that their true friends with build a hedge around them protecting them, and helping them to rebuild trust in their son. He himself must be so unwell to have gone this far.

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Posted by Fiona in Kent @ 23:36 on Aug 25 2008

I have watch my leades fall into adultery, lust, and stealing money from the church. I have been damage by false phrophits. I had my Pastor perving on me and telling me it was my fault. The worse times this happen when you know the people really well. I have been damaged by christian councelors. I don't go to church at the moment I can't find one I feel safe in. It doesn't change the fact that God is real and that the Holy Sprit still lives in us, me and those who have hurt us.

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Posted by josh in cornwall @ 01:52 on Aug 26 2008

Whilst shocked, it shows that no matter how high we may pedestal or revere someone... They are only human, like all prophets. You read about anyone in the bible Adam, Noah, Moses, Joshua, David... they all commit sin.

David commited far greater sins, in God's view, all sin is equal, therefore we are all equals.

Some christians are more trusted than others, some more well known. Some are more in the public spotlight, ALL are human, ALL sin, NONE are perfect.

So yes, Mike has sinned, of course he has, just like you.

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Posted by roxane in brisbane @ 03:52 on Aug 26 2008

it's been interesting reading everyones personal comments and we are all entitled to it because alot of people are greiving right now and we must make room for each other to do that. our daughter Laura came home from bible college last night and reminded us about the life of King David - God called him a Man after my own heart". This is exactly what the enemy wants to do - divide the body of christ - it comes from within intersetingly enough and not from without. Come on people, let's rise above this. i have 3 teenage daughters who are very involved in the youth movement and this hasn't rattled their faith at all. there's alot we can learn from this. let's put our faith and trust back in the One we are meant to.!

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Posted by Rachel in New Zealand @ 04:50 on Aug 26 2008

"my experience is that the devil attacks just before we are about to make major ground for God"
I agree wholeheartedly Ben! We must not be beaten and dragged down by this. In Christ we are 'more than conquerors!'

Romans 8:31-37

What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?

He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

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Posted by Daniel in South Africa @ 09:22 on Aug 26 2008

I must be honest, I am in fact dissapointed, but I cannot simply stand by and judge our brother. Yes, he has lied to us all, but do we not also lie? I mean, think about it, how many times do we not lie to ourselves, do we not tell little white lies? Remember, in the eyes of God, it is all the same.

Yes, this is sad, but God promised that everything will work out for the better for those who believe in Him, so I believe that Mike will recover, and he will have a different story to tell, one of complete victory.

Let this be a reminder to us all, let us wake up, let us see that God loves the truth and let us pursue it. God bless

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Posted by Sam Edwards in UK @ 02:04 on Aug 27 2008

Hi!
Thanks for that.
I'm a Christian and up until recently went to a Hillsong Church. - I'm slowly starting to loose faith in them.
Its seems that theres something not quite right about the whole network. How its ran, and if any questions are asked, your pushed away.

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Posted by Richard Munro in Maranatha Christian College @ 02:32 on Aug 27 2008

Some relief that the issue is one of propogating a "lie" that was probably used to make a larger impact in ministry. Dissappointing and unnecessary but by secular standards hardly surprising!! Media interest is simply in the "ooh aah" aspect and perhaps rubbing our noses in our own failings. (fair enough to!!)

Many will have been touched by Mikes ministry and while it has been diminished by this, the genuine things of God will not have been affected. Lets use our Biblical model of confessing, repenting, reconciling and moving forward. Lets learn again from this issue and release some of our leaders from having to have "Gob smacking testimonies" to boost their spiritual credentials. This is "our problem" - christian community so lets deal with it!

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Posted by Rodney Cronje in South Africa @ 13:04 on Aug 27 2008

Dear Mal

Thank you so much for your Spirit filled comments on this sad event. My heart goes out to Michael at this time and i pray that God who is all knowing will allow this tragedy to bear fruit to his Glory. Having walked a similar road of porn adiction i full undersand the dynamics behind the scenr and the inner torment. Unless you have walked a road in another mans shoes rather dont comment. I wounder what the church and the world would have had to say if King David were living today. Murder adultere fornicator sex addict, yet God restored him. Sexual addiction is the CANCER of the soul and its end will lead to distruction and death. Let this be a message to other in and out of the church seek help while it may be found. In the END its all about God and his kingdom he will be the judge and have the final word. God is a forgiving God and the God of Grace. This is the time for the saints and the army of God to stand together for one who has fallen. Dont lets leave to the Lions lets draw him back into the fold!!!!. To other reading this be slow to judge!!!! God may be saying to you christian or non christian get your life right. When he comes back God is going to hold you accountable for your own life and not that of your brother. Again may this sad event result in a glorious testemony of the GRACE OF GOD. HIS LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SIN!!!.Rodney

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Posted by Eliel @ 14:47 on Aug 27 2008

How could no-one have found out for two years? Have we no discernment at all? That would seem to be a sign of something very, very wrong within the church. We turn again to the scriptures, and see calls for us to have wisdom and discernment in deciding which way to go, what path to follow.

We read “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” (1 John 4:1)

We read also from Paul in his first letter to the Corinthians him mentioning it twice. He first says it is a spiritual gift “to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues” (1 Cor 13:10 – interestingly it is right before speaking in tongues, which many Pentecostals have vigorously defended, but none of them have cared to read the five words just before that?)

He also sets out guidelines in the 14th chapter on how prophesy should occur – “Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.” (1 Cor 14:29) Yet somehow this did not come to pass into that situation.

And I read that everyone was deceived, right down to his congregation, his mentors, his parents, even his very wife. And I do not wish to rub salt in the wound, but where is the discernment in this case? Some have written excusing it, saying “no-one knew that the cancer was a lie, so he must have hid it well” but that is completely missing the point!

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Posted by Eliel @ 14:49 on Aug 27 2008

Do you doubt that the Lord of Heaven is unable to see through the lies of mere humans? He proves it in Acts 5, in the story of Ananias and Sapphira – they would have lied to the believers, tried to fool them too, but Peter, full of the Holy Spirit, sees right through their deception, and speaks out instantly.

Where was this kind of discernment? Michael Guglielmucci should have rightly trembled at a person truely filled by the Holy Spirit (not what these churches have taken it for), for a person truly filled by the Holy Spirit would have discerned him two years ago, and his fate would have been much worse than it is now, judging by Acts 5.

Where is our Godliness? Where is our discernment? There is something terribly wrong in the churches he moved in, in churches in general across Australia and some across the world, if there is NO-ONE at all that is filled by the Holy Spirit and has the gift of discernment.

Are we all blind? Have we all been deceived by the world around us? In that case, what of the thing we call Christianity in this country - how true is it to Biblical Christianity?

I have a terrible, grave feeling that the Church that Jesus Christ came to plant is so far different from our version in Spirit, that it would take a mighty act indeed to bring us back. And while I know God is more than willing and able to do acts like that, I don't know how many would be willing to follow.

May the God who started us continue in us, and as he increases, may we decrease.

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Posted by Matthew Pearson in Portsmouth @ 17:47 on Aug 27 2008

In light of sisutaton like this. Jesus should always be our main focus. No one man, Christian group, Christian organstion is bigger than the Kingdom of God. Jesus said he will build his Church and the gate of hell shall not stand aganist it.

Jesus is building his Church and the focus at a time like this should be lifting up Jesus. Showing people how great Jesus is. After all man can fail us we can fail ourselves but God never fails us.

We are part of a Kingdom which will last forever. God is for us forever. His love is for us forever. What ever going on Mike still needs our prays in dealing with his issues. Only God can sort out something like this.

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Posted by Ruthie in England @ 19:01 on Aug 27 2008

Thank you Jesus that you brought Mike to the point of complete brokeness. Thank you that you are the Great Restorer & Healer and you are taking the brokeness of this man and beginning to put him back together. Thank you that you love us so much and that you continually pour out your mercy, love & grace on us. Thank you for going to the cross with my sin, Mike's sin, the sin of the person reading this written all over you. Thank you for bearing that weight and the pain of having your Father turn His face from you on the cross. Thank you that Mike Guglielmucchi's name is written on your heart. Thank you that you have forgiven him (and me!). Thank you that you are his (and my) Healer. You are awesome Jesus! Give wisdom to those in leadership of Your church that we would see your name honoured & glorified despite what we as imperfect people do. In your precious name Jesus.

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Posted by MAN @ 13:38 on Aug 28 2008

All churches have flaws..not just the Pentecostal.. as well as Me & U. BUT beloved, I think U R missing the point here…
- Unfortunately people in Authority or(influence) can not avoid the SEVERE consequences of their action…(lucky I am not a leader)
———————————————————————–
They need to be 4given but as in the story of David…
- THE SWORD never departed from his house, (Amnon, Abshalum)
- Lust (Adultery) never left his house(Thamar, Abshalum )
“This is what the Lord says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.”
Isn’t that very harsh from the God of all mercies..?!
BUT LISTEN TO THIS
“12:13
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan replied, “The Lord has taken away your sin. you r not going to die”
12:14
But because by doing this you have MADE THE ENEMIES OF THE LORD show utter contempt, the son born to you will die.”
I think if I were god at that time, I would’ve really forgave him…
- Israel was divided severely as a consequence of his action….(not simple)
and much much more….
Very sad isn’t it??? BUT it is the truth….
We R called to 4give the Porn Addict, as well as the deceivers, and ourselves as we can also be deceived by deceivers that the bible has warned about…..
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SAMSON for example…you know what happened to Samson, when he disgraced his God’s Name…..he was severely humiliated….and the amount of humility that he brought to God’s name….
DU KNOW what the enemies said…”Our god has delivered Samson, our enemy, into our hands.”…….SHAME ON SAMSON….
WHAT I LOVE ABOUT THE BIBLE IS THAT IT SAYS THE TRUTH ALL TRUTH..DOES NOT HIDE
But if we are a lie we will hide it….
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thats what happened to real prophets of God

Why Do Christian Ministers Fail?

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