The financial stories of CHRIS COLE and artists After The Fall, Pray Naked and Rachel Friend

Because radio has been held back for so long in the UK, festivals have become THE launch pad for Christian music ministry. We've just heard that last year Greenbelt made a loss of £18,000 and some festivals, like Crossfire, have gone bust. Tell me about the Cross Rhythms financial story.

"We're on our seventh festival. Originally when we started out it was put together for a £12,000 budget. The first year I made a £7,000 loss. Last year it cost £46,000 and we made a £230 loss. That's the facts and figures."

Presumably you didn't have £46,000 in your bank account when you started?

"Kerry and I have always under girded Cross Rhythms by our own personal resources, which is not very much. We've given God materially everything we've got, like our house. At the moment I have £15,000 equity in our property and that always under girds the work that we do. We've always worked to that. Going back to that same principle, God saved me and everything I've got is his, anyway."

What if it had gone wrong, you could have lost your house.

"Sure, but that's been the situation for the whole 15 years. Back in the early years of the advertising agency things were very tough. In 1989 I ended up £34,000 in debt, still on radio. It was just part of God's process cleaning us up, pruning back, and moving away some people with wrong attitudes. It was tough and I almost lost my house, but I didn't. The point is you don't find your life unless you're prepared to lose your life and at the end of the day God doesn't say this is going to be an easy formula - he says, 'I'm going to change you into the likeness of Christ,' and I agree with people like Rick Godwin who say, 'We bring people to Jesus and we don't give them the truth.' Jesus is not going to make us happy clappy, he's going to completely rearrange our lives. People aren't prepared for that, but, I tell you, I'm more motivated, I'm more turned on by God now than I ever was. (I really am beginning to see Gods perspective of the eternal, and his value in the day to day living). I'm still facing some difficult issues, but I have a greater revelation that the Lord is totally faithful and Cross Rhythms has never been in a more powerful position, under God's grace, and a potential to really open up the Christian music scene in terms of radio and distribution. But the only person that's going to get any glory out of this is Jesus."

If the festival costs £46,000 to put on, how come many artists still play for £50 or so?

"Because we're still in the process of slow, organic growth with the festival. The magazine, the festival and the radio probably turns round an income and expenditure of £130-150,000 a year. Yet, I have never been paid for a radio show in 13 years. Many of the people who contribute to the ministry are unpaid volunteers. Musicians in Britain must have a realistic attitude towards festivals in Britain. They're a tremendous showcase in putting a ministry before the general public. But, at the moment, they're far from being a sound business investment."

Are you paid a monthly salary by Cross Rhythms?

"No. 60 per cent of my income comes through my business and I then make a small amount on what I contribute to the tape on the magazine. Nobody makes an income on the festival and there's a small income now to some of those who are called into the ministry, you, Jon, myself from the radio. If one was to look at Cross Rhythms commercially and pay the 'going rate' for everybody who was working into Cross Rhythms, you'd be talking about something that might need £300,000 a year to run as it does at the moment. But, as we know, the market's not there, the infrastructure is still being established. The reason Cross Rhythms festival doesn't pay artists their standard fees for playing is that CCM in Britain isn't currently supported well enough to do so. If I say that, I must lead by example. I'm saying if I am resourcing with my tent-making ministry 13 years of radio I can justifiably say to the artists I can only afford to make a small contribution towards expenses. As a ministry we resource musicians by promoting them on our magazine, radio and festivals. You've got to remember too that Cross Rhythms is not tied into a denominational structure or a church stream; it is totally independent. We are not financed by anybody except Chris and Kerry Cole. Now that means that the market will not sustain paying artists very much. That goes for all large events unless you're like a Soul Survivor where you can pay the bands because they're under girded, to a certain extent by St. Andrews, Chorley Wood. Now I think that kind of support is a very good thing, but it is focussed on what New Wine is doing."

Cross Rhythms festival has gradually grown. 2,000 came of the first one, to 3,500 last year. But your running costs have gone up a lot as well. What kind of growth are you looking for in the future?

"What I really need is growth of another £6,000 or £7,000 to pay the artists more. And in fact to stop seriously cutting corners to put on Cross Rhythms fest we would need to take £60,000 or £70,000. Now we've got to grow into that. And it's a long way to grow from a £12,000 festival to a £60,000-70,000 festival that's generated by its own momentum. Now we're working towards that. But what I would say to Christian artists, for the moment they've got to look at the festival as an opportunity to showcase."

Much bigger festivals than Cross Rhythms are running up financial losses. Have some festivals paid out too much for artists?

"Without a doubt. We're still trying to salvage the £17,000 debt that the Crossfire festival in Liverpool went into three years ago. Their collapse demonstrates my point. If you're not governing the thing financially there's a lot of hurt. I think the Church needs to understand that the moral and ethical dynamics that God puts into life are just as much a demonstration of love as what we say to each other and how we minister in the spirit. No point talking about the Good News of Jesus if at the end of the day you can't pay your bill. I'm very passionate about that, not because I'm tight with money but because of the honour of Christ in that. I've put everything I've got, and I have done, on the line for God. But the moment I go beyond that I'm out of line...All of us say, 'hey, we hear from God'. But let's say we haven't heard from God and we get into debt and we can't afford to pay there's trouble around. When I got into £34,000 debt I second mortgaged my property and within a year through the profitability of my business we paid all that off. I'm not saying you can't get into debt or legitimately go bankrupt, I'm not looking for a hard and fast rule here, but when you're in ministry it's not just your honour you're carrying, you're carrying the honour of Jesus Christ. Anybody can put a festival on. Paying the bills is the hard part."