Jonathan Bellamy spoke to John Wells, otherwise known as The Tonic, about THE CROSS MOVEMENT and their decision to finish recording albums together.

John: Exactly and also we're putting out a lot of up and coming new guys as well. So it's just time to play different roles.

Jonathan: We received a Billboard mag today and saw a new album by Flame called 'Our World Fallen' which has hit the gospel charts there - is that album connected to you? Can you tell us a bit about that?

John: Most definitely it is! This is Flame's third album, a young guy from St Louis who to me has come in a kind of two part style just in terms of his authority when he gets on the mic and writes his rhymes. He's one of the guys that we are looking to pass on the baton to, he's doing a great job and that new album is just phenomenal. It's actually one of my favourites of all time.

Jonathan: That's a real commendation for him. Now, the label Cross Movement Records is just getting bigger and bigger. How do you decide who to put on your roster? Is it just if they have great rhythms or is it life-style?

John: Oh most definitely! It's one of those processes - we don't take quick looks at people so it's not about "Hey we saw you at an event and thought you were so hot, so talented." Actually, we take a long look. Most of the guys, Flame, The Truth, Everyday Process - it's at least a two or three year process and it just happens naturally like that and through relationship we get a chance to watch people and we want to check their character out and see if they're really ready to sort of hold that kind of mantle, be able to do not just the music. Like another guy we put out, Lecrae says, after the music stops, what are you all about? We just make sure and do a lot of prayer before we put guys out.

Jonathan: With what you're doing in terms of live shows and stuff like that, do you get much chance to interact with the audience?

John: Yes - we're not on some star studded kind of thing and trying to be uppity so after the concerts we hang out and make ourselves available to talk and chat - that's what we do it for. We use hip-hop as a tool to gather people and to give the Gospel and then look forward to dialogue and even further. So yes, we hang out and do whatever we can.

Jonathan: What do you know of hip-hop in the UK? We thought that we'd heard that you were going to release an album by Ministry Of Defence, a British group - is that still going to happen?

John: Well, we're still working on it! The struggle with MOD, like ourselves, they're veterans as well. They also host a church in South London, Calvary Chapel, so those guys are really, really busy and sort of have a lot of things going on. There were a couple of little complications with their project - we're actually going to be talking about it this week so we'll see what the Lord says about what's going on there. As far as what do I know about London hip-hop, I haven't been here in about three years, so I hope to catch up with what's going on while I'm here.

Jonathan: In terms of hip-hop generally, I didn't actually see Oprah Winfrey, but I heard that she stirred up a little bit of controversy in the US, being critical of secular hip-hop. Do you think that her comments were fair?

John: Most definitely I think they're fair. I think that hip-hop has to answer finally to someone who is tired of the double standard, who is going to hold hip-hop accountable for a lot of what it promotes, so I think it was fair. I don't think it's fair in the States where every time something happens, people tend to look for a scapegoat and it seems that hip-hop is that scapegoat. But unfortunately it doesn't get them to look deeper at the more serious social issues that we may have in the States and actually I would say abroad because hip-hop is pretty much not just an American music any more. National Geographic did a great article in the April edition where they said that we pretty much live on a hip-hop planet. The article talked about how hip-hop has pretty much infiltrated the globe.

Jonathan: Do you guys get much opportunity to interact and have relationships with some of the secular hip-hop artists?

John: Not as much as we would like to but every now and then our music makes its way into that sphere and we get 'phone calls. Over that past 10 years I would say that we've come into contact with various secular artists as well as had reports come back to us from different people who are in relationship with those people, just commenting on what they thought about our music or our ministry.

Jonathan: Obviously a lot of hip-hop is being played on radio in the States but what about Christian hip-hop? Do you think that it gets enough air-play over there?

John: Not at all! That's one of the actual problems! I started a campaign called the Why Hip-Hop campaign in the States and my whole emphasis was that point. There's no Christian hip-hop radio, there's no Christian hip-hop video programmes. As far as radio and video and you know the media is just really, really tough on Christian hip-hop. It's sort of being caught between a rock and a hard place sometimes. You're not necessarily wanted by the world because of some of your moral stances but the Church tends to have a hard time with you because they don't understand the scene. But you know over Cross Movement's 10 years we've seen a lot of walls come down and we've just kept it moving.

Jonathan: And hopefully with your record company you're going to get a lot more out there and raise a lot more awareness and interest. Looking back over those 10 years, what comes to mind as some of the highlights?

John: It's been interesting! A lot of time what men would call success isn't what God would call success and a lot of times when we look deep into the Bible we see that God's ways are not like ours. Quite often what looks small and insignificant actually God uses that, but sometimes he'll wait years and years to pull back the veil to actually show what he's been doing. We get a lot of encouragement from that principle. Over the past couple of years I think God has done some great things not just through Cross Movement and through Cross Movement Records but through a lot of different people who use Christian hip-hop as a tool for the Gospel. Just looking back, the 'phone calls of 'I was going to kill myself but I listened to your album and it actually changed me,' or, 'I used to think a certain way, I used to be a thug or I used to be a certain way in life and I happened to get your album and I'm not that way any more and I'm really coming to a relationship with Christ and with God and I'm different.' I mean, those are the kind of things that make us know that it's all been worth it despite the tough times. We're not out here collecting millions of dollars to do this and we have families and stuff but it's all worth it. The Lord has been faithful and has provided for us. It's all good and we look forward to continuing until he comes back for us.