Jonathan Bellamy went to Bentilee, Stoke-on-Trent to meet with the Rt. Hon. Vernon Coaker MP and Under Secretary of State at the Home Office.

Rt. Hon. Vernon Coaker MP

With his key responsibilities including Crime Strategy Implementation, Youth Crime, Violent Crime, including guns, gangs, knives and Anti-Social Behaviour, Jonathan began by asking Rt. Hon. Vernon Coaker MP why he'd been specially invited to Bentilee, a council estate in Stoke-on-Trent.

Vernon Coaker: Well, one of the reasons is that over the last few years there's been a significant drop in crime in Bentilee. Home Office figures show us there is now a 20% drop, so I wanted to come to talk to them about how that's been achieved and what further work they want to do. And it's clear, we've got the police here, we've got the housing association and we've got local residents, so what's happened is, everybody's come together to bring about that very real difference.

Jonathan: Do you think partnership is the key to success in things like this?

Vernon Coaker: Partnership is the key. There's no doubt that everybody has to come together; everybody has to work together. And you know, if the crime figures have come down but you can't get the graffiti cleaned, the streetlights not working, the streets are not swept; if all of that's not being done then you'll find it difficult to believe the crime figures. So it's about trying to make sure all of those things are done, that everybody's come together and that's what's happening in Bentilee.

Jonathan: Is it something that you've seen reflected across the country or is it something specific about Bentilee that you can take away?

Vernon Coaker: I think the thing I've taken from Bentilee is that it's the resident's involvement in what's going on. The residents clearly have an influence on how the area is policed, clearly have an influence on the local authority and clearly have an influence on the mayor.

They're talking about a new tenancy that they're looking at, a transforming tenancy, which will be about, not only saying you have to conform to our tenancy agreement, but we're looking at a new tenancy agreement which will also be about self esteem, respect, and getting back to work. So that's something I am going to have a close look at.

Jonathan: Looking at the broader picture nationally, we're often hearing things about full prisons, knife attacks and knife violence increase etc. What are your specific targets and goals? What do you think are the key things that you need to deal with in the nation?

Vernon Coaker: I think if you look at crime overall, crime overall has reduced significantly across the country. However, there are particular issues. In particular communities we know that serious violence is an issue with respect to knife crime in particular and gun crime, so that's obviously a national priority for us to tackle those; we all see them on our televisions and hear about them on the radio, some of the awful crimes that occur. We need to try and see what more we can do about that and what more we need to do about that.

Alongside that is a lower level of anti-social behaviour, the sorts of kids on the street that drive people mad as well. And that's not only about government, that's not only about local authority, that's how we can get that small minority of parents who don't take responsibility, to take more responsibility for their children as well. And that's something that will be a priority for us in government.

Jonathan: Can you expand on that a little bit? What do you feel the roots are of anti-social behaviour?

Vernon Coaker: Well, I think there's always been a sort of a feeling that you're either somebody who believes in tough enforcement of the law or you're someone who believes we should be nice and kind. It depends on the circumstances. So it's tough enforcement and it's a supportive approach.

When we look at what's actually happening, when we try and understand what's going on with anti-social behaviour, I think there is something around parenting with a small number of families that we need to look at.

It's also some of the standards of the social norms that used to hold communities together when there were big industries here in Stoke, the potteries. Tens of thousands of people were all working at the same place, there was social solidarity; now, there's much more individual lifestyles, much more of a sense in which people are working on their own. We need to re-establish what I call social glue; the re-assertion of social norms and that has to start in the home that has to start with parents.

Most parents accept their responsibilities, we've got a problem with a small number and we need to deal with that.

Jonathan: Why do you think that there has been that weakening in terms of parental structure?

Vernon Coaker: I think sometimes it's a case of some parents refusing to accept their responsibility. And as I said in the meeting just now, it's very difficult for the government to pass a law.

For instance, if you have a child who is 8 or 9 years old, you will ensure they're not out on the street late at night. The expectation from us all would be that that would be something that the parents would enforce themselves as good parenting; but there is in some families a breakdown in that. Why that happens is a difficult question to answer, but I think the important point is the state, local authorities, communities have the right to expect parents to look after their children properly and if they don't, to expect alongside that, parenting contracts, parenting orders.

Let me be clear, I'm not talking about a parent who tries to act responsibly, but simply because of reasons like I had with my own children, sometimes they didn't do what I asked them to do. I'm on about a parent who just doesn't accept their responsibility. We need to deal with that.

Jonathan: You mentioned earlier that social cohesiveness in a city like Stoke on Trent might have been a lot stronger in the past. Do you think that there has been an increase in the breakdown within families? How strong should government get in terms of making parents and families accountable, to government structure systems?

Vernon Coaker: I think that the government has a responsibility to try to ensure that where parents don't accept their responsibilities that they get involved with that. And that's why we've established things like parenting contracts, which are voluntary arrangements and then if they're not adhered to, then you get parenting orders.

These are the things that are available to the police, available to the local authorities to go to the courts to apply for. So I think, in some circumstances, in some situations I think people would expect the state to make available to the authorities, powers, which they can use to try and ensure parents don't abdicate their responsibility.

Jonathan: Final question. It's along the same lines but perhaps a step back a little bit from the detail of today. Over the decades there's been an increased level of involvement tackling these issues from government putting more money into things; perhaps more government agencies and organisations trying to help and more understanding of the human condition etc. Why do you think that the sense is, despite all that has gone into it, we are weaker in some of those areas - whether that's sexually transmitted diseases, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, knifings etc. Why do you think with all that goes into it, we are actually in a weaker position than we were, say ten, twenty, thirty, forty tears ago"?

Vernon Coaker: Well, I think what people need to do is to look at this in a global perspective. If you look at it in a bigger perspective, as I say crime's fallen, educational standards have risen. All of these things have happened.

Alongside that, in some communities, in some families, problems have increased. And those problems have been seen in the streets, problems we've seen in serious violence, and it's that that causes people to have concerns.

If you have a situation where the victims of knife and gun crimes, as is the cases we've seen in the last couple of years, those victims have become younger and the perpetrators have become younger, that causes people to question what it is that's going on in society. What is it that's happening around and they see with a small number of people that lack of respect and that lack of willingness to abide by the normal social rules. And so the clear thing that needs to happen is for us to target those to ensure that we try to do all we can with them.

And let me make one point clear that I think is a good example of this. The vast majority of young people in our society are fine. There's absolutely no problem with them. They're growing up in difficult times but there's not a problem with them.

What I think we need to shout out loudly and clearly from the top of every rooftop is there are a small number who cause the real problems and what we need to ensure is that we deal with that small number and that small number doesn't colour our view of everyone.