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Published Monday 20th April 2009
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Posted by Richard in United Kingdom @ 16:04 on Apr 28 2009
Chris, it's great to hear your opinion. If we ever manage to sound anything close to The Cure or The Smiths I might well spontaneously combust with joy, but that you hear enought to make the comparison is good enough for me. it's refreshing to see someone with a critical opinion express it in a balanced way, and by all means, mention us to your sister and her husband ;)
On a more general note to the wider discussion, (with many thanks for his passion and support to Shanghai Dave) it has been good to see a bit of discussion generated. We were disappointed with the review, of course, and I sympathise with Dave on the flaws he sees, but we should remember that CR uses volunteer reviewers and, trying to be tactful, we're perhaps asking too much to expect it to read like Pitchfork or Uncut etc. Paul Poulton is a decent song-writer from what I've heard and his opinion, with a little context, has been taken on board.
www.12triberecords.com
Chris, it's great to hear your opinion. If we ever manage to sound anything close to The Cure or The Smiths I might well spontaneously combust with joy, but that you hear enought to make the comparison is good enough for me. it's refreshing to see someone with a critical opinion express it in a balanced way, and by all means, mention us to your sister and her husband ;)
On a more general note to the wider discussion, (with many thanks for his passion and support to Shanghai Dave) it has been good to see a bit of discussion generated. We were disappointed with the review, of course, and I sympathise with Dave on the flaws he sees, but we should remember that CR uses volunteer reviewers and, trying to be tactful, we're perhaps asking too much to expect it to read like Pitchfork or Uncut etc. Paul Poulton is a decent song-writer from what I've heard and his opinion, with a little context, has been taken on board.
www.12triberecords.com
Posted by Chris in UK @ 11:53 on Apr 25 2009
Anselm remind me of bands such as:
The Smith's
The Cure
James
REM
Vampire Weekend
Musically not always executed too well, but one or two nice textures in there. Lyrically, a little bit immature. Vocally, not particularly strong, and i guess there's a fine line between sounding vulnerable, and just not quite cutting it. But within the context of this genre of music i guess it's passable, a bit querky. There have been worse bands showcased on Jules Holland show from time to time!
I don't object to this album, but i wouldn't choose to listen more than once. It's definately for a selective audience. People would do well to listen to the snippets before a purchase. For the record, i suspect my sister and her husband would like it, they're quite into these kinds of indie bands!!
Anselm remind me of bands such as:
The Smith's
The Cure
James
REM
Vampire Weekend
Musically not always executed too well, but one or two nice textures in there. Lyrically, a little bit immature. Vocally, not particularly strong, and i guess there's a fine line between sounding vulnerable, and just not quite cutting it. But within the context of this genre of music i guess it's passable, a bit querky. There have been worse bands showcased on Jules Holland show from time to time!
I don't object to this album, but i wouldn't choose to listen more than once. It's definately for a selective audience. People would do well to listen to the snippets before a purchase. For the record, i suspect my sister and her husband would like it, they're quite into these kinds of indie bands!!
Posted by Stephen in Belfast @ 10:34 on Apr 22 2009
Hey all,
i am in the band and thought i would say hi. thanks for talking about our music - didn't think we would generate a flurry of discussion!
i agree with what has been said - of course we accept the views of others if we submit something for review.
most of all i agree with noel - we write, record and release music to touch hearts and pray that we change some people in the process. the album is a sincere communication of our appreciation of Christ, what He has done for us and will do for us in the future. we pray that people get something out of it.
Hey all,
i am in the band and thought i would say hi. thanks for talking about our music - didn't think we would generate a flurry of discussion!
i agree with what has been said - of course we accept the views of others if we submit something for review.
most of all i agree with noel - we write, record and release music to touch hearts and pray that we change some people in the process. the album is a sincere communication of our appreciation of Christ, what He has done for us and will do for us in the future. we pray that people get something out of it.
Posted by Viv in UK @ 21:45 on Apr 21 2009
Hi David
I am assured that reviewers always try to look for encouraging things to say, but they also have to give their own honest opinion.
Within this review I see alot of positive comments for you guys:
1) Good to see that the 3 lads have been busy making music
2) They have something to offer
3) Rippling riff that most people would find engaging
4) Nice ghosty notes on the snare drum
5) "Just be still" has a neat acoustic lick. The reviewer is not keen on the word just but finishes with the fact that YOU GUYS make this work.
I was given a great piece of advice recently, and that was that a review is only one person's opinion. One of the reviews I received recently was not as favourable as I would of hoped, but I just decided that I would take away the positives work on the negatives that I agreed with, and not read the review again.
I must agree with Noel, if we offer something for a review then we need to be prepared to read the opinions of others whether we agree with them or not.
I enjoyed listening to your short extracts, It would of been helpful to hear more to enable me to form an opinion. Keep on keeping on and enjoying your work in His service.
"May the peace of Christ rule in your hearts"
Hi David
I am assured that reviewers always try to look for encouraging things to say, but they also have to give their own honest opinion.
Within this review I see alot of positive comments for you guys:
1) Good to see that the 3 lads have been busy making music
2) They have something to offer
3) Rippling riff that most people would find engaging
4) Nice ghosty notes on the snare drum
5) "Just be still" has a neat acoustic lick. The reviewer is not keen on the word just but finishes with the fact that YOU GUYS make this work.
I was given a great piece of advice recently, and that was that a review is only one person's opinion. One of the reviews I received recently was not as favourable as I would of hoped, but I just decided that I would take away the positives work on the negatives that I agreed with, and not read the review again.
I must agree with Noel, if we offer something for a review then we need to be prepared to read the opinions of others whether we agree with them or not.
I enjoyed listening to your short extracts, It would of been helpful to hear more to enable me to form an opinion. Keep on keeping on and enjoying your work in His service.
"May the peace of Christ rule in your hearts"
Reply by David in Shanghai @ 10:21 on Apr 22 2009
Viv - I'm not quite sure, but you appear to have drawn the conclusion that I am in the band? I'm not sure how you came to this, and I apologise if I misled you in any way, but I had hoped to make it quite clear that I am only a fan. Therefore, "You Guys" does not refer to me. Having said all of that, I am sure that the band, if they read this, will take encouragement from your comments.
To address your points: At no point did I say anything along the lines of "I don't this review because he doesn't like the album", which your comments seem to suggest. That would be petty and childish, and a waste of everyone's time on my part. What I did say, and I have repeated this a number of times, is that the reviewer must engage with the album in a more critical and thought-provoking way. It has failed to do that.
I have said this a couple of times, but it bears repeating - I am not annoyed or angered at the reviewer's opinion!! I had hoped I had stressed that enough, but from Viv's comment it appears some haven't understood that. I am happy to accept the fact that someone doesn't like the song, or whatever. My grievances were with the standard of writing, not with the judgment of the review. He can think this is the worst album ever written, but he must express that in a logical and academic fashion. Some may think I am asking too much of a reviewer, but I don't apologies for trying to raise the standard of Cross Rhythm's critical output.
David, a fan, in Shanghai.
Viv - I'm not quite sure, but you appear to have drawn the conclusion that I am in the band? I'm not sure how you came to this, and I apologise if I misled you in any way, but I had hoped to make it quite clear that I am only a fan. Therefore, "You Guys" does not refer to me. Having said all of that, I am sure that the band, if they read this, will take encouragement from your comments.
To address your points: At no point did I say anything along the lines of "I don't this review because he doesn't like the album", which your comments seem to suggest. That would be petty and childish, and a waste of everyone's time on my part. What I did say, and I have repeated this a number of times, is that the reviewer must engage with the album in a more critical and thought-provoking way. It has failed to do that.
I have said this a couple of times, but it bears repeating - I am not annoyed or angered at the reviewer's opinion!! I had hoped I had stressed that enough, but from Viv's comment it appears some haven't understood that. I am happy to accept the fact that someone doesn't like the song, or whatever. My grievances were with the standard of writing, not with the judgment of the review. He can think this is the worst album ever written, but he must express that in a logical and academic fashion. Some may think I am asking too much of a reviewer, but I don't apologies for trying to raise the standard of Cross Rhythm's critical output.
David, a fan, in Shanghai.
Reply by David in Shanghai @ 10:10 on Apr 22 2009
Viv - I'm not quite sure, but you appear to have drawn the conclusion that I am in the band? I'm not sure how you came to this, and I apologise if I misled you in any way, but I had hoped to make it quite clear that I am only a fan. Therefore, "You Guys" does not refer to me. Having said all of that, I am sure that the band, if they read this, will take encouragement from your comments.
To address your points: At no point did I say anything along the lines of "I don't this review because he doesn't like the album", which your comments seem to suggest. That would be petty and childish, and a waste of everyone's time on my part. What I did say, and I have repeated this a number of times, is that the reviewer must engage with the album in a more critical and thought-provoking way. It has failed to do that.
I have said this a couple of times, but it bears repeating - I am not annoyed or angered at the reviewer's opinion!! I had hoped I had stressed that enough, but from Viv's comment it appears some haven't understood that. I am happy to accept the fact that someone doesn't like the song, or whatever. My grievances were with the standard of writing, not with the judgment of the review. He can think this is the worst album ever written, but he must express that in a logical and academic fashion. Some may think I am asking too much of a reviewer, but I don't apologies for trying to raise the standard of Cross Rhythm's critical output.
David, a fan, in Shanghai.
Viv - I'm not quite sure, but you appear to have drawn the conclusion that I am in the band? I'm not sure how you came to this, and I apologise if I misled you in any way, but I had hoped to make it quite clear that I am only a fan. Therefore, "You Guys" does not refer to me. Having said all of that, I am sure that the band, if they read this, will take encouragement from your comments.
To address your points: At no point did I say anything along the lines of "I don't this review because he doesn't like the album", which your comments seem to suggest. That would be petty and childish, and a waste of everyone's time on my part. What I did say, and I have repeated this a number of times, is that the reviewer must engage with the album in a more critical and thought-provoking way. It has failed to do that.
I have said this a couple of times, but it bears repeating - I am not annoyed or angered at the reviewer's opinion!! I had hoped I had stressed that enough, but from Viv's comment it appears some haven't understood that. I am happy to accept the fact that someone doesn't like the song, or whatever. My grievances were with the standard of writing, not with the judgment of the review. He can think this is the worst album ever written, but he must express that in a logical and academic fashion. Some may think I am asking too much of a reviewer, but I don't apologies for trying to raise the standard of Cross Rhythm's critical output.
David, a fan, in Shanghai.
Posted by Keith Singletom in Stockport @ 18:22 on Apr 21 2009
I actually think this was quite a positive review on the whole. As a former reviewer for CR myself, I can say reviewers are sometimes subjected to quite poor quality offerings as its very easy to record these days but quite frankly some people shouldn't bother. Songwriting & recording is a craft that gets better with experience and I would say these boys have potential but need to listen to their critics, particularly people like Paul who have been writing and making music for a long time and know what they're talking about. I know Paul seeks for encouraging things to say when he reviews but we have to be honest. I'm sure all reviewers (myself included) have upset people over the years but that's the risk you take when you ask for a critique of your work. How many appalling acts have been subjected to public humiliation on TV talent shows because their friends and relatives haven't given an honest opinion?
I actually think this was quite a positive review on the whole. As a former reviewer for CR myself, I can say reviewers are sometimes subjected to quite poor quality offerings as its very easy to record these days but quite frankly some people shouldn't bother. Songwriting & recording is a craft that gets better with experience and I would say these boys have potential but need to listen to their critics, particularly people like Paul who have been writing and making music for a long time and know what they're talking about. I know Paul seeks for encouraging things to say when he reviews but we have to be honest. I'm sure all reviewers (myself included) have upset people over the years but that's the risk you take when you ask for a critique of your work. How many appalling acts have been subjected to public humiliation on TV talent shows because their friends and relatives haven't given an honest opinion?
Posted by Noel in West Yorkshire @ 15:52 on Apr 21 2009
Boys, Boys, Boys. Come on, let's not squabble. If you offer something for a rewiew then you must accept the opinions of others. It is only opinion at the end of the day. I heard the snippets and found them limiting to offer an opinion of any meaningful nature. If this were live then I would enjoy the sound and the visuals. The only litmus test that I am bothered about is does it change peoples lives, do people go away changed by what they have heard.
Boys, Boys, Boys. Come on, let's not squabble. If you offer something for a rewiew then you must accept the opinions of others. It is only opinion at the end of the day. I heard the snippets and found them limiting to offer an opinion of any meaningful nature. If this were live then I would enjoy the sound and the visuals. The only litmus test that I am bothered about is does it change peoples lives, do people go away changed by what they have heard.
Reply by David in Shanghai @ 17:28 on Apr 21 2009
I am not wanting to get a monopoly of this comments board (!), and I should really be asleep out here in China, but I hope you don't mind me replying to you, Noel.
If you re-read my initial comments, I hope you can see that I am not in fact challenging his right to an opinion. Yes, I am well aware that everyone is welcome to share their opinion; If he doesn't like the album, that is completely fine. In fact, one reason I like the Anselm so much is because they are not to everyone's taste.
My basic point, however, was that this review lacks any real content. He is welcome to his opinion, of course he is: the whole point of having spaces to write comments below is to challenge that opinion and his review. What I have been trying to do is to pick apart the lines of the review and show how it actually tells the listener very little regarding the composition of the album as a whole. There has been a lot of talk about "litmus tests" (a limited analogy, I must confess and apologies for using it), but let us ask the simple question: does the review above really tell the reader about how the entire album hangs together? My conclusion is that it doesn't, but I understand many will continue to disagree with me.
I am not wanting to get a monopoly of this comments board (!), and I should really be asleep out here in China, but I hope you don't mind me replying to you, Noel.
If you re-read my initial comments, I hope you can see that I am not in fact challenging his right to an opinion. Yes, I am well aware that everyone is welcome to share their opinion; If he doesn't like the album, that is completely fine. In fact, one reason I like the Anselm so much is because they are not to everyone's taste.
My basic point, however, was that this review lacks any real content. He is welcome to his opinion, of course he is: the whole point of having spaces to write comments below is to challenge that opinion and his review. What I have been trying to do is to pick apart the lines of the review and show how it actually tells the listener very little regarding the composition of the album as a whole. There has been a lot of talk about "litmus tests" (a limited analogy, I must confess and apologies for using it), but let us ask the simple question: does the review above really tell the reader about how the entire album hangs together? My conclusion is that it doesn't, but I understand many will continue to disagree with me.
Posted by Karl in Staffs, UK @ 13:46 on Apr 21 2009
I reckon the reviewer's first sentence is right: they're a "like them or loath them" band.
I can see why: I've had a listen to the snippets at http://snipr.com/gd3kw and their music is in the post-Radiohead vein, which I love, but which is hated by many. (This witty parody does a good job of mocking the genre: http://snipr.com/gd3hj)
Weak voices and dour? Yes, but not as weak or dour as, say, Neil Young or Nick Drake. The songs sound quite pretty at times, but it's hard to tell from such short samples.
If you're in doubt, listen to the clips at http://snipr.com/gd3kw, and see whether you're a lover or a loather.
And add your comments.
Let's all have an argument.
I reckon the reviewer's first sentence is right: they're a "like them or loath them" band.
I can see why: I've had a listen to the snippets at http://snipr.com/gd3kw and their music is in the post-Radiohead vein, which I love, but which is hated by many. (This witty parody does a good job of mocking the genre: http://snipr.com/gd3hj)
Weak voices and dour? Yes, but not as weak or dour as, say, Neil Young or Nick Drake. The songs sound quite pretty at times, but it's hard to tell from such short samples.
If you're in doubt, listen to the clips at http://snipr.com/gd3kw, and see whether you're a lover or a loather.
And add your comments.
Let's all have an argument.
Reply by David Paul in Northern Ireland @ 21:44 on Apr 21 2009
Karl & Noel, we've now posted up some full tracks from the White and Blue album on our site 12triberecords.com. There's White and Blue and Come Away on the main 12t player and Just Be Still, Bruised and Love You Showed on the album page. We've taken this step so people can have a better appreciation of the music for themselves prior to release. Thanks.
Karl & Noel, we've now posted up some full tracks from the White and Blue album on our site 12triberecords.com. There's White and Blue and Come Away on the main 12t player and Just Be Still, Bruised and Love You Showed on the album page. We've taken this step so people can have a better appreciation of the music for themselves prior to release. Thanks.
Posted by Jack in USA @ 13:25 on Apr 21 2009
Christian or not, some music is just good and some is not. I find that most so called "Christian Music" is really "Just" la la la la Jesus and that's it. Mostly a facsimlie of something else that's already been done and a reach for some sort of commercial success. Songs still need to move you and a really interesting connection to real life without being vague I think is a must. There are too many three chord choruses put out that classify as "Christian". Bottom line...it still has to really grab you and emotionally take you somewhere when you here it, no matter what style. I also helps if you really know your instrument and are not just relying on effects or studio tricks.
Grace & Peace
Jack
Christian or not, some music is just good and some is not. I find that most so called "Christian Music" is really "Just" la la la la Jesus and that's it. Mostly a facsimlie of something else that's already been done and a reach for some sort of commercial success. Songs still need to move you and a really interesting connection to real life without being vague I think is a must. There are too many three chord choruses put out that classify as "Christian". Bottom line...it still has to really grab you and emotionally take you somewhere when you here it, no matter what style. I also helps if you really know your instrument and are not just relying on effects or studio tricks.
Grace & Peace
Jack
Reply by David in Shanghai @ 15:34 on Apr 21 2009
Jack - I completely agree with all you say. In fact, if you listen to the Anselm you will find they are so much more than "three chord choruses" or "la la la". Try it.
Robin - I wasn't asking the reviewer to provide detailed scriptures that back every song; I was simply stating how ridiculous it is that in such a limited word count, he chooses to write about how people who pray out loud like songs with the word "just" written throughout - can you explain that one to me please?!?! I'm not saying the job of a reviewer is easy, but I would expect better than that from Cross Rhythms. I have to say I found your comments interesting, and I think I'd like to hear your thoughts on "White and Blue". What say you do a review of it and post your thoughts here...? Go on!
Jack - I completely agree with all you say. In fact, if you listen to the Anselm you will find they are so much more than "three chord choruses" or "la la la". Try it.
Robin - I wasn't asking the reviewer to provide detailed scriptures that back every song; I was simply stating how ridiculous it is that in such a limited word count, he chooses to write about how people who pray out loud like songs with the word "just" written throughout - can you explain that one to me please?!?! I'm not saying the job of a reviewer is easy, but I would expect better than that from Cross Rhythms. I have to say I found your comments interesting, and I think I'd like to hear your thoughts on "White and Blue". What say you do a review of it and post your thoughts here...? Go on!
Posted by Robin in Hull @ 12:55 on Apr 21 2009
David,
I think the unfairness is in your comments rather than the review to be honest. Having reviewed cds myself I think what you are asking is unreasonable. For instance, there really is no space to comment on the scriptural backing of each of the songs. In fact, it isn't usually possible to address every facet that one would like. Also, you mention various songs that you felt were worthy of mention but obviously the reviewer felt differently; it's personal taste, you cannot expect everyone to be attracted to the same songs. You do make reference to this in your comments yourself.
Also, if the reviewer has failed to grasp what the band is about, you have to accept the possiblity that the band themselves may have made a poor job in communicating that with the album.
I actually think this is a balanced review that finds both points of praise and points of criticism. I'm not sure about your "litmus test" - I think there is more to it than that. That aside, my experience is that very few artists are actually able to do what you described.
David,
I think the unfairness is in your comments rather than the review to be honest. Having reviewed cds myself I think what you are asking is unreasonable. For instance, there really is no space to comment on the scriptural backing of each of the songs. In fact, it isn't usually possible to address every facet that one would like. Also, you mention various songs that you felt were worthy of mention but obviously the reviewer felt differently; it's personal taste, you cannot expect everyone to be attracted to the same songs. You do make reference to this in your comments yourself.
Also, if the reviewer has failed to grasp what the band is about, you have to accept the possiblity that the band themselves may have made a poor job in communicating that with the album.
I actually think this is a balanced review that finds both points of praise and points of criticism. I'm not sure about your "litmus test" - I think there is more to it than that. That aside, my experience is that very few artists are actually able to do what you described.
The opinions expressed in the Reader Comments are not necessarily those held by Cross Rhythms.
Breaking a song to pieces and using big words in your critque only serves to give the reviewer(s) a sense of power that alludes their own musical experience.
The Anselm make good music. There vocal style is unusual for these times and brave.......and good. Stephen has his own sound. You cant say that about any of the established worship leaders you will find in Christian book shops.
These guys wear their heart on their sleeve and are approaching christian music from the outer reaches. They live in Belfast for goodness sake, not exactly a hotbed of Christian music activity or publicity. Nevertheless, they continue to make bold music, less noise/more content and they understand the risk of such an approach.
This aint a good review, but it's not bad. It doesnt really say anything except this geezer couldn't be bothered today.
I like the anselms music and I like their style.
They are not Newsboys - Thank goodness for that.