Jesus music pioneer MATTHEW WARD speaks to Mike Rimmer.

Looking at how the industry is in the 21st century, how does it compare to when they were pioneering in the early '70s? "Well, people call us pioneers," he comments, "but I don't think you can know you're a pioneer at the time. I mean, you only look back and go, well yeah I guess we were. That's kind of how it was in a sense. We had no real preconceived idea of what we wanted to go out and do. We knew that the Lord had given us these songs and we just wanted to communicate them with people. We didn't know how to present them very well. We didn't know what we were doing. We just went out and did it. We didn't have a marketing team and we didn't have a management team. There was no Christian radio then so it was very much doing it because you wanted to do it, not because you could even really make a living at it. I think that was the heart of many of the bands in the early '70s. It was not necessarily to make a name for themselves but to go out and do what they felt God called them to do. I think that has shifted. There's been a paradigm in Christian music. Especially this new trend in worship music the last 10 years or so. It has become very popular. It's a big money-maker. I've seen some bands come on the scene that really have no business being out there, you know?"

He continues, "At one point in my autobiography I talk about music. It's called Musing On Music. I write about how just because somebody can do a thing doesn't necessarily mean they should. It's one thing to be an entertainer, it's another thing to be a minister. I think if you're going to go out and do music and try to minister to people, to me it's much more of a significant weight. I think there's an anointing that needs to come with that. If you're going to tickle people's ears that's one thing, but if you're going to try and minister God's truth in someone's life I think it takes a bit more sobriety."

In many ways I agree with Ward. Over the years that I have been travelling to America to interview bands, it seems that every year there are debut artists recording albums but with no clear spiritual direction. In depth questioning doesn't seem to reveal any deep motivation other than the desire to be in a band. I could name names where the latest preacher's kid is launching a band but modesty and the threat of legal action prevents me from doing so.

Ward agrees, "I think that's kind of what I'm getting at. I think a lot of times if you have the look and you have the sound that's all it takes, and it really doesn't matter where they're at spiritually or how deeply based they are spiritually. I've seen several groups that hit the road based on their ability to generate sales and income for a company. Not for any other reason really. And because of that they would crash and burn. They would get out there and start doing stuff and not realise they had an enemy that was trying to undo them. So they'd fall by the wayside. Pretty sad deal."

2nd Chapter Of Acts

2nd Chapter Of Acts always had a reputation for ministry and their success spawned plenty of other vocal groups wanting to occupy the same musical territory. I talked to First Call who'd built a large following with their unique brand of pop harmonies and I suggested to them that if they put together a tour with 2nd Chapter Of Acts, it would be hugely popular. "Yeah it would be a lot of fun," agrees Ward "I just think that we're at such different places in our lives I just don't see that happening. I mean, I toyed with the idea last year actually. I was actually going to have my daughter Megin, she's 21 now, she was going to take Nellie's place and be the alto. She did great. I had her rehearse some tunes and stuff. She's actually really, really good. But, you know what? I decided that.I had to be the bad guy in the deal and say, 'We had a very clear word from the Lord to stop.' The Lord wasn't saying, 'Don't do it.' But I needed to hear the Lord say, 'Do it.' So in other words the absence of a 'No' wasn't good enough. I needed the presence of a 'Yes.' And I didn't have that. And so I said, 'Fine, I'm not doing it.'"

Ward's solo career has been interesting. In many ways the 2nd Chapter Of Acts period overshadows it and although he has made some good solo albums he has always been more popular when singing with his sisters. Does he feel that too? "Oh yeah," he assents. "I never thought that it would be anything but that. The first two or three solo albums I did when I was still travelling with my family. It wasn't like I started doing solo records because 2nd Chapter ended. I was doing it in the context of the group, which worked out great for me because I didn't have to hire another band and lights. I'd come out and I had an opening 15- or 20-minute set of my new stuff in the second half of the concert. So it exposed people [to me as a soloist]."

He continues, "It was so funny, people would come to the concerts going, 'Oh, 2nd Chapter Of Acts and Matthew Ward.' They had no idea. 'Who's this Matthew Ward guy?' I get that even to this day. People that know me for me never heard of the group!" He laughs. "That's happening now because I've been doing it for so long solo."

Ward's debut album should have been released when he was 18 years old in the mid-'70s but there was a delay. Even now talking about it, you can sense some of Ward's frustrations. "There were some issues. Actually in the beginning Michael Omartian was producing it. We had done a couple of tracks in the studio and he came to Buck and I and said, 'I just don't think Matt's ready to do a record.' I'm like, 'Okaaaay.' So I thought, fine, I'll wait. And I waited a couple of years. 'How about now?' Anyway he got busy doing Jermaine Jackson or whatever. I'm not going to say anything negative here. I could.but I'm not gonna! That is from my view. My view could be totally wrong. But I just decided, I've waited long enough and I said, 'Buck, let's do this. Let's finish this thing.' So he produced it and we just went in and did it. I'm glad we did it. It was a lot of fun."

Today, 'Towards Eternity' has stood the test of time and across the last 20 years Ward has delivered a number of solo albums. Matthew is blessed with what can only be described as a signature voice, instantly recognisable in any context. With such a voice, it would have been easy for him to take his talents into the mainstream. He admits, "Through the years I had several offers. To do everything from film to act in a movie. Maybe my view has been too narrow or something but for a lot of years I just really felt, and I still do feel this way, that God's gifted me with something. I don't have that many years on this planet and I just really want to invest what he's given me back into people. And I think the best, most valid, the weightiest way to use it is to proclaim who God is to people who may or may not believe in him. People who are disillusioned maybe in their faith. To try and speak into their lives and show them that there's a faithful God out there."

Matthew values the eternal value of his art but he's sung on three number one secular hit singles. He sang background vocals on Donna Summer's "She Works Hard For The Money", "Ironically produced by Michael Omartian," he observes. "I actually did a duet with her on that album too but it didn't get any radio play. They shot it down because they found out I was white. Even though I didn't sound white. Anyway," he sighs. "The other one was LeAnn Rimes on a song called 'Blue'. I sang backgrounds on that and on a tune with Steve Holy the country artist. He had a number one song a couple for years ago. 'Good Morning Beautiful'. I sang backgrounds on that."

In My Second Chapter, the singer describes the way in which 2nd Chapter Of Acts split up. Was he sad when they decided to stop working together? "Yeah it was difficult." He explains, "We would normally come together every year and pray about the next year coming up to see if we were supposed to still go on and do it or whatever. Then in '87 when we prayed about '88 we felt like that should be our last year. There were a lot of different factors involved in that. But I think to a fault we didn't tell anyone that was our last year. We didn't want it to look like a farewell tour. Come on, let's sell a lot of records! So we didn't publicise it at all. The last concert we did was in 1988 in the Houston Arena in Houston, Texas. We told them it was our last concert. A lot of people were upset with us for some time because we didn't tell them that it was our last year and they told us they would have come along. So looking back I think we should have handled it a little bit differently than we did."

As well as doing pop material with a strong Christian message, Matthew has also recorded material that stretches into the worship arena, most notably 1994's 'My Redeemer'. He says, "I never did one of the records to be a 'worship record' because if you listen to them, they're songs. They're not choruses. They're not congregational songs. But some of them have gotten some notoriety in that genre."

He elaborates, "When it comes to 'My Redeemer' I tell this story about one of my best friends. I played it for him when it was done. I'd just finished. We got it mixed and whatever. He listened to it and he goes, 'Man that's the best worship album that I've ever heard!' And it kind of offended me because that was becoming a real popular thing right at that time. I didn't want to be thought of as a guy who jumped ship because I was doing rock ballads and a lot more rock/edgy stuff and then this album is ike a complete departure. I didn't want people thinking that I just jumped ship to do that but it was something that God was really doing in my heart. I mean, I had a fight over my record label about doing this record to the point where I had to leave them because they wouldn't support it. They wouldn't do it. So my wife and I sold the house, that's how strong I felt about it. We paid for it ourselves. It was a totally independent record. We hired a radio tracker. We did it all. It did incredibly well. We had a couple of number ones off that CD."

Matthew continues, "But it offended me when he said, 'That's the best worship album I've ever heard!' I'm like, 'I was not trying to do a worship album.' And he goes, 'Well let me rephrase that. This CD allows me to worship God more than any other CD I've listened to.' And I said, 'Oh, so it's like a facilitator?' And he said, 'Yeah.' Because in my mind there weren't any worship songs on it, you know? I don't know, it was just a little burn in my saddle; personal issues back then. But that's one of my favourite records I've ever done. And the one after it called 'Even Now'. I really love that one too. It's awesome."