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radioThese are reader comments for the article 'Whatever Happened To Music Ministry? A hard hitting editorial by Mike Rimmer'
Reader Comments
Posted by David Paul in Northern Ireland @ 20:45 on Apr 21 2009
Church kids and youth groups sing the songs they do because sometimes the reality is they're the only songs they know because the publisher can supply the necessary chord books for learning and the hymn books for singing. I'm not saying down with the system as, like Mike, I too would stress the need for community praise and worship but Mike has also said that the Christian music industry is "written off as insular" but my experience both as an artist and being involved with an independent label is that that is the reality unfortunately and that doesn't mean insular from the secular community I feel that the CCM music industry is insular in itself. A connection and collection of a few influencing and helping define the choices of many. I wonder if within the industry we've lost touch with the leading of, and sensitivity, to the Spirit? - it's a Spirit-led initiative that prospers to God's glory not a man-made agenda.
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Church kids and youth groups sing the songs they do because sometimes the reality is they're the only songs they know because the publisher can supply the necessary chord books for learning and the hymn books for singing. I'm not saying down with the system as, like Mike, I too would stress the need for community praise and worship but Mike has also said that the Christian music industry is "written off as insular" but my experience both as an artist and being involved with an independent label is that that is the reality unfortunately and that doesn't mean insular from the secular community I feel that the CCM music industry is insular in itself. A connection and collection of a few influencing and helping define the choices of many. I wonder if within the industry we've lost touch with the leading of, and sensitivity, to the Spirit? - it's a Spirit-led initiative that prospers to God's glory not a man-made agenda.
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Posted by David Paul in Northern Ireland @ 20:42 on Apr 21 2009
Hi, I'm the Company Director of an independent Christian record label called 12tribe records. I'm stating that initially so that like Dave of Risen Records you'll know my bias in expressing my view but hopefully see through that in the point I'm making and not see this comment as an advert. I'd like to raise the thought that this issue isn't necessarily something to be directed at mainstream artists and why they are letting us down as Christians, but I think that fails to look at the problem from our own point of influence - what can we do to change this?. In Mike's comments he says, in relation to modern worship phenomenon, that to him " it's all starting to sound the same" but that's a phenomenon that is fuelled by the CCM 'industry'. The rally cry for originality and spirituality cannot be made for Christian music when it's set against the reality that so much of Christian radio is glutted by music with diluted Christian content because it supposedly appeals to a wider audience of listener. So that's not just a failure of mainstream Christian artists, it's a failure that can be levelled at any who place commercial success above Christ-centred purpose. To ask for a new wave of music and a new style places responsibility on Christian media to be receptive to new and different sounds, but because of the commercial clout, and sales prowess, of many larger Christian and non-Christian music labels this style isn't necessarily sought out it's defined - marketed.
Hi, I'm the Company Director of an independent Christian record label called 12tribe records. I'm stating that initially so that like Dave of Risen Records you'll know my bias in expressing my view but hopefully see through that in the point I'm making and not see this comment as an advert. I'd like to raise the thought that this issue isn't necessarily something to be directed at mainstream artists and why they are letting us down as Christians, but I think that fails to look at the problem from our own point of influence - what can we do to change this?. In Mike's comments he says, in relation to modern worship phenomenon, that to him " it's all starting to sound the same" but that's a phenomenon that is fuelled by the CCM 'industry'. The rally cry for originality and spirituality cannot be made for Christian music when it's set against the reality that so much of Christian radio is glutted by music with diluted Christian content because it supposedly appeals to a wider audience of listener. So that's not just a failure of mainstream Christian artists, it's a failure that can be levelled at any who place commercial success above Christ-centred purpose. To ask for a new wave of music and a new style places responsibility on Christian media to be receptive to new and different sounds, but because of the commercial clout, and sales prowess, of many larger Christian and non-Christian music labels this style isn't necessarily sought out it's defined - marketed.
Posted by A in UK @ 15:25 on Apr 21 2009
There are plenty of amazing God centered artists out there - it's just that no body goes to see them or support them. It's not - whats wrong with music ministry? but more whats wrong with the church and christians? This is a much wider issue than just music ministry. What about church leaders and speakers and the endless amount of books, teaching tapes, etc that are all the same! Surely the buck cannot stop with only music artists? If Mike is looking for a fresh, prophetic, God-centrered wave of music ministry maybe he should get on his knees and pray that God inspires folk - instead of being critical. Pray Mike. Pray. And open your eyes to what's already out there - gaining ground for the Kingdom. Stop going to Dove Awars etc and go and see your wee local humble muso bursting with passion for Jesus and being radical for the Kingdom!
There are plenty of amazing God centered artists out there - it's just that no body goes to see them or support them. It's not - whats wrong with music ministry? but more whats wrong with the church and christians? This is a much wider issue than just music ministry. What about church leaders and speakers and the endless amount of books, teaching tapes, etc that are all the same! Surely the buck cannot stop with only music artists? If Mike is looking for a fresh, prophetic, God-centrered wave of music ministry maybe he should get on his knees and pray that God inspires folk - instead of being critical. Pray Mike. Pray. And open your eyes to what's already out there - gaining ground for the Kingdom. Stop going to Dove Awars etc and go and see your wee local humble muso bursting with passion for Jesus and being radical for the Kingdom!
Posted by g in Dorset @ 12:46 on Apr 21 2009
As someone who has had some experience in the music industry, I belive part of the reason why a lot of music sounds the same is to do with the christian record labels in this country. They know that middle of the road music has the best chance of selling albums and bringing in revenue, and so they often sign artists who will fit that mould, and also they get albums to be produced and mixed to sound safe and predictable. This is a mistake in my opinion. I think the record companies need to push and encourage bands to experiment and try new things rather than stick to the well known and inoffensive format.
As someone who has had some experience in the music industry, I belive part of the reason why a lot of music sounds the same is to do with the christian record labels in this country. They know that middle of the road music has the best chance of selling albums and bringing in revenue, and so they often sign artists who will fit that mould, and also they get albums to be produced and mixed to sound safe and predictable. This is a mistake in my opinion. I think the record companies need to push and encourage bands to experiment and try new things rather than stick to the well known and inoffensive format.
Posted by Dave Griffiths in Bournemouth @ 10:56 on Apr 21 2009
Mike, We are trying. Trying to push through a ministry to the Kingdom through music. That is what BOSH is all about, without compromising our creativity and our song-craft. In less than a year we have given away 2500+ copies of our album 'Sound the Alarms'. Will this make us rich?
The fact is that this music ministry you are looking for does exist and there is a record label designed to release it, Risen Records. The fact that you haven't brought it up means that we're still under the radar, which sort of means we're doing it right! Quitely getting on with it, week in, week out in venues large and small. We are destined to be the un-marketable grey area between the mainstream and the 'worship' market. We're not particularly for Christians, or for entertaining non-believers. We are for those who have ears to hear. Brother John, [dweeb], Tom Whitman, Eben, The Repercussion, the list of decent, sincere, hard working ministry acts could go on.
You want to help us? Treat us the same way as Mr. Hughes or a certain band beginning with D.
Mike, We are trying. Trying to push through a ministry to the Kingdom through music. That is what BOSH is all about, without compromising our creativity and our song-craft. In less than a year we have given away 2500+ copies of our album 'Sound the Alarms'. Will this make us rich?
The fact is that this music ministry you are looking for does exist and there is a record label designed to release it, Risen Records. The fact that you haven't brought it up means that we're still under the radar, which sort of means we're doing it right! Quitely getting on with it, week in, week out in venues large and small. We are destined to be the un-marketable grey area between the mainstream and the 'worship' market. We're not particularly for Christians, or for entertaining non-believers. We are for those who have ears to hear. Brother John, [dweeb], Tom Whitman, Eben, The Repercussion, the list of decent, sincere, hard working ministry acts could go on.
You want to help us? Treat us the same way as Mr. Hughes or a certain band beginning with D.
Posted by c in UK @ 00:51 on Apr 21 2009
i cant help but agree with Mike that many new Christians artists arent being original enough.
and i would love to hear more GOd-centered songs- not just songs about how bad the state of the world is or people being in pain- there is a place for those songs but i feel that there is not enough focus on the solution to the world's problems. Christian songs ahould point to Jesus, and either be about praising Him or about us being encouraged and uplifted in Him. i do not want to turn on Christian radio and be depressed- but sometimes i hear so many "Christian" songs that dont show anything of Jesus and just talk about misery. How is that helpful or edifying?
people need to hear that Jesus is good- i think Christian artists need to get back to using their music as a means to share the gospel and express their love to Jesus for who He i sand what He has done for them.
i cant help but agree with Mike that many new Christians artists arent being original enough.
and i would love to hear more GOd-centered songs- not just songs about how bad the state of the world is or people being in pain- there is a place for those songs but i feel that there is not enough focus on the solution to the world's problems. Christian songs ahould point to Jesus, and either be about praising Him or about us being encouraged and uplifted in Him. i do not want to turn on Christian radio and be depressed- but sometimes i hear so many "Christian" songs that dont show anything of Jesus and just talk about misery. How is that helpful or edifying?
people need to hear that Jesus is good- i think Christian artists need to get back to using their music as a means to share the gospel and express their love to Jesus for who He i sand what He has done for them.
Reply by James Faddes in Ayrshire @ 21:14 on May 4 2009
Hey C, is this the kind of thing you mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8
Hey C, is this the kind of thing you mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-NOZU2iPA8
Posted by Jon in Devon @ 22:26 on Apr 20 2009
Many of us have been thinking this for a while but now someone who will be listened to has spoken out.
Well done Mike!
Many of us have been thinking this for a while but now someone who will be listened to has spoken out.
Well done Mike!
Posted by Nikki in Herts @ 22:09 on Apr 20 2009
I agree, it would be amazing to hear some uplifting truths about God - about who he is and what he's done for us - come across the secular airwaves of this world. A message for hope is so needed in this world!
Its like we have a huge opportunity that would be stupid to miss and yet are afraid to take it.
Good on you for speaking out Mike. I hope some read it and are inspired to make the changes you are crying out for.
I agree, it would be amazing to hear some uplifting truths about God - about who he is and what he's done for us - come across the secular airwaves of this world. A message for hope is so needed in this world!
Its like we have a huge opportunity that would be stupid to miss and yet are afraid to take it.
Good on you for speaking out Mike. I hope some read it and are inspired to make the changes you are crying out for.
Posted by Kevin gould in Naples florida @ 16:19 on Apr 20 2009
Thanks Mike. Great article. As an old guy from the 70's who is still writing songs that try to make relevant statements I am so tired of the "Teeny Bopper Praise" that we are being bombarded with.
There are hardly any good lyricists out there and for all these "Latest and greatest" that the record companies keep pumping out, a guy from the 70's Graham Kendrick is still the best worship songwriter out there by a mile.
Thanks Mike. Great article. As an old guy from the 70's who is still writing songs that try to make relevant statements I am so tired of the "Teeny Bopper Praise" that we are being bombarded with.
There are hardly any good lyricists out there and for all these "Latest and greatest" that the record companies keep pumping out, a guy from the 70's Graham Kendrick is still the best worship songwriter out there by a mile.
The opinions expressed in the Reader Comments are not necessarily those held by Cross Rhythms.
In closing I will get to my personal umbrage. In Mike's article I agree full heartedly with his comment "I am calling for a revolution! It is time for artists to rediscover what true music ministry can be. I am looking for God to raise up artists who are not worship leaders or mainstream acts but whose passion is to see their fellow believers come alive in God. An artist like that would have to be biblically literate and spiritually mature. Away from the music, they would be a disciple and capable of discipling others...". I read this comment and my heart falls because, in the same month this article is posted on Cross Rhythms, an artist that belongs to the 12tribe records' label 'the Anselm' who as individuals tick all those boxes are slighted, I believe, unfairly for their music. Please join in this debate at http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/products/The_Anselm/The_Anselm /17884/ and http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/products/The_Anselm/White_And_ Blue/79510/
Why? because we're staggered as an organisation as to the logic of an album being awarded 9/10 by one reviewer and then 3 years after the fact being downgraded by another reviewer who didn't like the 2nd album. Who is the voice of CCM? - we want you to decide for yourselves about this release - from tomorrow we'll be posting some tracks in their entirety on our site www.12triberecords.com - so it's not a marketing gimmick as there's no obligation to buy just listen if you will please to full track samples -
brilliant reply...this has educated me a bit. i'm actually a co-producer of a successful tv programme called ukcmc. we champion new music from ALL styles of music. will be sure to check out the new songs on your web.
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